Do let us know how it goes--I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

I'm in a writing group with six other people. Only one is published, though if you count my handful of newspaper articles from 1996 and my pending magazine article, it's two. The group originally formed through a community college writing class, so we're a random mix of styles and genres. There's one person who's so good he makes me love a type of story I'd normally shrug over (not the published one, BTW). Most of the others write well, though I hope J eventually steps a bit farther from personal experience, because the fantasy parts of her story are much more interesting than the real life of a business consultant parts, and sometimes I want to ask V if it would kill her, just once, to let an eensy bit of optimism creep in.

There is one person who I seriously doubt has what it takes. Her characters aren't clearly delineated, her dialogue doesn't sound like anything anyone would say, her style is awkward, and she has some problems with telling rather than showing. I haven't been so blunt as to tell her this, and I won't be--it would completely violate the rules of our group. And who am I, at this point? I'm just another unpublished novelist. Besides, I could be wrong. I like her, and I like the root idea behind her story, so I'd be thrilled if I was. And she's so new to this that even if I were 100% sure of my judgment, it'd be like telling some 6-year-old kid she'll not only never make the Olympic team, she won't even make it to Sectionals. At this stage, it's not the point. So, I try to help her by drawing out what's good and trying to gently correct what isn't.

Susan, I'm with you on the entire thing.

One enormous difference, though? These people have just sent out - get this - 238 query letters. I call that being pretty sure of themselves.

They had sent out twenty and they got back 18 with the "love the pitch and synopsis, send the first XX pages". On the basis of those requests - not waiting for feedback - they sent out a mass, and I do mean mass, mailing. And now they're panicking because, in the interim, they're hearing the feedback and the feedback aint good.

238? t boggles

I'm not sure I could find 238 legitimate publishers or agencies to query. I think I have stars by maybe a dozen of each in my Writer's Market.

238.

That's what he said.

And I have never, ever, ever trashed someone's work; if I don't like it due to a personal taste, I'll tell them that. Hell, I can't read most of Tad's because I have difficulty with epics; they make me cranky. But he still writes like an angel and it won't stop us doing a reading together.

But when I'm being paid, at their insistence, to tell them what's wrong?

They're going to hear precisely that. It would, in any case, be a huge disservice to do anything else. And I'm wondering if that isn't precisely what Pat Holt did.

I'd love to know what kind of market research they did to come up with that 238--I can't believe they managed it without either querying shady fly-by-night places or legitimate but completely inappropriate ones.

God knows. It's beyond me - I didn't ask and I'm wondering if they sent the unpublished novel out not only to agents and whatnot, but to production companies, actors, etc.

I don't think I want to know....

238. Without having anyone tell them it was good? t boggles

I don't post to the internet for free without having someone do a read over. Much less ask people to pay me for it without having a writer I trust take a look at it.

These people aren't overly burdened with modesty, are they?

t sigh

I'm not sure it's conceit, Consuela - I think they're just so focused and committed to this damned thing that here isn't anything else, so why bother with anything that isn't Getting Their Novel Out There?

They're probably really nice people, too. I'll find out tomorrow.

But the first 55 pages suck and blow at the same time.

I'm sorry to have to say it, but the "autographed copies can't be returned" thing is the biggest urban legend in the writing world. They can be, and it happens every day.

The discussion of inborn talent, beginner vs. advanced classes, etc. reminds me of a ninth-grade creative writing student of mine.

S___ was way below grade-level in, well, every subject. She was a new student in the school, and it appeared that her academic problems stemmed in part from some learning disabilities, in part from simply not being the sharpest knife in the drawer, and mostly from simply being promoted through the grades without certain issues being dealt with along the way. I was less than thrilled to hear that she was taking my class as an elective.

Her writing, however, was extraordinary. She did have quite a bit to learn about how to structure a plot, and her spelling and grammar were atrocious. That said, S___ had an amazing eye for detail and understanding of character. She could pick the right detail and the right words (as far as her vocabulary allowed--and she would ask for words if she didn't have the right ones) to convey those details. She also used the kinds of details that said a lot about different characters, their pasts, their attitudes, etc.

Most importantly, she also liked to write, and liked it even more when she told that she was, at the most important level, a good writer. Unfortunately, she transferred out of my school partway through the year, and I have no idea of what happened to her.

I think that the core of what gave S___ this natural talent was that she paid attention to the people around her, and picked up on the quirks and characteristics that made each person unique. She wrote what she saw, and didn't go about making characters to fit certain stereotypes or checklists.