238.

That's what he said.

And I have never, ever, ever trashed someone's work; if I don't like it due to a personal taste, I'll tell them that. Hell, I can't read most of Tad's because I have difficulty with epics; they make me cranky. But he still writes like an angel and it won't stop us doing a reading together.

But when I'm being paid, at their insistence, to tell them what's wrong?

They're going to hear precisely that. It would, in any case, be a huge disservice to do anything else. And I'm wondering if that isn't precisely what Pat Holt did.

I'd love to know what kind of market research they did to come up with that 238--I can't believe they managed it without either querying shady fly-by-night places or legitimate but completely inappropriate ones.

God knows. It's beyond me - I didn't ask and I'm wondering if they sent the unpublished novel out not only to agents and whatnot, but to production companies, actors, etc.

I don't think I want to know....

238. Without having anyone tell them it was good? t boggles

I don't post to the internet for free without having someone do a read over. Much less ask people to pay me for it without having a writer I trust take a look at it.

These people aren't overly burdened with modesty, are they?

t sigh

I'm not sure it's conceit, Consuela - I think they're just so focused and committed to this damned thing that here isn't anything else, so why bother with anything that isn't Getting Their Novel Out There?

They're probably really nice people, too. I'll find out tomorrow.

But the first 55 pages suck and blow at the same time.

I'm sorry to have to say it, but the "autographed copies can't be returned" thing is the biggest urban legend in the writing world. They can be, and it happens every day.

The discussion of inborn talent, beginner vs. advanced classes, etc. reminds me of a ninth-grade creative writing student of mine.

S___ was way below grade-level in, well, every subject. She was a new student in the school, and it appeared that her academic problems stemmed in part from some learning disabilities, in part from simply not being the sharpest knife in the drawer, and mostly from simply being promoted through the grades without certain issues being dealt with along the way. I was less than thrilled to hear that she was taking my class as an elective.

Her writing, however, was extraordinary. She did have quite a bit to learn about how to structure a plot, and her spelling and grammar were atrocious. That said, S___ had an amazing eye for detail and understanding of character. She could pick the right detail and the right words (as far as her vocabulary allowed--and she would ask for words if she didn't have the right ones) to convey those details. She also used the kinds of details that said a lot about different characters, their pasts, their attitudes, etc.

Most importantly, she also liked to write, and liked it even more when she told that she was, at the most important level, a good writer. Unfortunately, she transferred out of my school partway through the year, and I have no idea of what happened to her.

I think that the core of what gave S___ this natural talent was that she paid attention to the people around her, and picked up on the quirks and characteristics that made each person unique. She wrote what she saw, and didn't go about making characters to fit certain stereotypes or checklists.

238. Without having anyone tell them it was good?

Okay, I may have been guilty of sending out a completely green manuscript to a couple editors.

When I was fourteen.

I guess this is why editors hide behind fake names and keep Tylenol in business.

I sent one out when it wasn't ready too. I think I was "on to something" but had not reached it yet.But when I got rejected and even my friends were like "How'd they get there?" I took the hint. It makes me sad to think of it now cause I don't think I could write such a happy manuscript now. But I think the next one will be stronger if I ever write something long again.

Amych, yes and no on the urban legend: it depends on individual store and chain policies. The local Dalton doesn't return unsold autographed copies - they put them on the "bargain" table.

Which doesn't count as a return, which keeps the numbers up.

Anne, I did some volunteer work as a teenager with severely disturbed kids - children who would deliberately hurt themselves, who were violent, who couldn't or wouldn't talk. At least three of them, all under the age of ten if I'm remembering right, drew in a fashion that reminded me of people like William Blake. Theme, content, extraordinary beauty and power, all right there.

I wish I wasn't such a wuss. I love input and solid crit on my own stuff, but I hate dishing out bad news.