Wash: Mal, your dead army buddy's on the bridge! Zoe: He ain't dead. Wash: Oh.

'The Message'


Natter 45: Smooth as Billy Dee Williams.  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


lisah - Jul 21, 2006 7:42:58 am PDT #7956 of 10002
Punishingly Intricate

On the other hand, the ones that are still open will be getting more and more desperate to be filled, so that's an upside!

Yes! And they will be lucky to have been so desperate.


Sean K - Jul 21, 2006 7:43:42 am PDT #7957 of 10002
You can't leave me to my own devices; my devices are Nap and Eat. -Zenkitty

Re: unconscious tonal modulation.

Yes, it's obvious that it happens and that it helps convey information the words are not conveying, but that doesn't mean we understand exactly how it works, or that it's unworthy of scientific study.

It's obvious that there are clouds in the sky, but it takes scientific study to understand that they are made of suspended water vapor, and to understand how they function within the lower atmosphere, how they turn into things like thunderheads, tornadoes and hurricaines.

Is tonal modulation a newsworthy story? I don't know. Maybe. But I'm a little baffled as to why studying the phenomenon is baffling.


Rick - Jul 21, 2006 7:46:02 am PDT #7958 of 10002

Where's Rick? He needs to step in with "I've read the whole paper and what the article fails to convey is..."

ita knows me too well. I did read the original paper. It's a modest but interesting little paper in an obscure journal, tarted up a bit for the popular press. This really isn't a new discovery. Ask a friend to watch as you move an object and to say 'up' every time you move it up and 'down' every time you move it down. It is likely that their tone will rise and fall with the object. Even toddlers associate tone with verticality.

But what is of interest here is the very simple laboratory procedure of the moving dots. It's relatively free of social expectations and you can control speed, direction, number of dots, and consistency of movement. So it's really more of an efficient way to study something we already know about than it is a new phenomenon.

For example, the right-left differences were less intuitive (subjects talked faster when the dots moved to the right then when they moved at the same speed to the left). It's sort of like a visual Doppler effect. Anyway, with this method they can study many influences on this perceptual effect in a crisp, clear way. That's why the paper got published. But a new discovery? I don't think so.


§ ita § - Jul 21, 2006 7:47:45 am PDT #7959 of 10002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

that doesn't mean we understand exactly how it works, or that it's unworthy of scientific study.

But the article doesn't talk about the why. The article says things like:

the first evidence of "analog acoustic expression" -- people unconsciously modulating their voices in ways that provide an additional channel of expression understood by others

In case your bafflement included me, I never claimed that studying it baffles me. Talking about it as a discovery does. Also note that I wondered about the discrepancy between the paper itself and the article on it, hoping that the paper had a spin that the article lacked.


§ ita § - Jul 21, 2006 7:49:05 am PDT #7960 of 10002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

serial, so it doesn't get lost:

it's really more of an efficient way to study something we already know about than it is a new phenomenon.

Thank you! I knew you could be relied upon for more perspective than the article.


sarameg - Jul 21, 2006 7:49:55 am PDT #7961 of 10002

(subjects talked faster when the dots moved to the right then when they moved at the same speed to the left)

Would the reverse be true for those whose written languages go right to left, I wonder. Or what about the up-down languages? I wonder if they have a similar r-l correlation or not. and now you see how these things get started....


Cashmere - Jul 21, 2006 7:50:43 am PDT #7962 of 10002
Now tagless for your comfort.

I dislike her quite a lot just on incredibly annoying and useless grounds, so I'm with you, but what's the lactivist connection?

Barbara said on The View that a woman breastfeeding on a plane next to her made her "uncomfortable". I wonder how uncomfortable Babs would be if she had a hungry, squalling infant in her face for the whole flight.

Can I call in sick with elven princess syndrome?

I'm going to use this someday.

Emily, sorry about the job. Much job-ma, though. You'll find something wonderful.


juliana - Jul 21, 2006 7:54:16 am PDT #7963 of 10002
I’d be lying if I didn’t say that I miss them all tonight…

I really am moving across the country with no particular prospect of a job

It's a time-honored tradition!! (Remember, sweetie, I did the same thing. You'll be fine! Whee!)

I am sorry that the job fell through, though.


§ ita § - Jul 21, 2006 7:56:48 am PDT #7964 of 10002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

It's a time-honored tradition!! (Remember, sweetie, I did the same thing. You'll be fine! Whee!)

Totally! Think of yourself as a pioneer going west for new opportunities. Just make sure you avoid that pass where people ate people.


Rick - Jul 21, 2006 7:59:02 am PDT #7965 of 10002

Would the reverse be true for those whose written languages go right to left, I wonder. Or what about the up-down languages? I wonder if they have a similar r-l correlation or not. and now you see how these things get started....

Yes, I'm sure that the authors heard from potential collaborators in Israel the same day that the paper came out. That's how methods (even simple ones) drive ideas in science.