I think it's a bad thing to do, but not necessarily a sign of alcoholism. Teenagers are stupid.

I didn't bring up alcoholism, though. I still think it's a Problem, both for the teen and the people around the incident.

Apparently teenagers are stupid, but millions of them manage to make it through without flipping their cars.

People are stupid, in my experience. Not just teenagers. Not even predominantly teenagers.

I doubt he was. If there was a hint of it, they would have said so. or said something like "police will not confirm if HJO was under the influence"

What about this report? Do you think there's no chance there?

it was impossible to tell who had a real problem with alcohol, and who just had a situational drinking problem.

Impossible for who? Medical professionals? Or laypeople?

Also, how are you defining a situational drinking problem--I'm assuming it rates lower on the grave scale, but why?

I have to agree with Jesse.

I make the distinction almost with what fixes the problem-- that is the people I think of as alcoholics really can never drink again, while I think it is possible for problem drinkers to become normal drinkers. My uncle, for example, had a problem drinking after he broke up a long time relationship, and in fact had enough DUI/DWI's to have his license taken away. After that, though, he sobered up, but will still drink wine at a Christmas party or something.

I am not sure a health professional would/could make a distinction.

I still think it's a Problem, both for the teen and the people around the incident.

Sure. I think we are just imparting different things to the Capital Letter P.

Impossible for who? Medical professionals? Or laypeople?

Impossible for me. As to the definition, some of the people who drank way too much in college were fine with drinking after graduation, and some weren't. The way I see it, some people were alcoholics, and some had situational drinking issues, in a situation where there were basically no restrictions on their behavior.

People are stupid, in my experience. Not just teenagers. Not even predominantly teenagers.

Also, you don't think teenagers are more likely to do stupid things than older people are? I will speak only from my own experience: I, and my friends, did many stupid things when we were teenagers, most of which we would not do now.

Edit: And by stupid, I really mean risky to ourselves and/or others.

I think we are just imparting different things to the Capital Letter P.

Does your Pooh Casing extend beyond alcoholism? I'm trying to work out now if I think alcoholism is better or worse than drunk driving, and I just can't even start weighing them. I think DUI is hugely horrible. Alcoholism too. There's some overlap, but that's not so important to me.

I am not sure a health professional would/could make a distinction.

I think a good one could and would.

Impossible for me.

Fair. For me too. But I'm no more than a Dr. Google.

Do not attempt to blow your hair out of your eyes if you have just eaten a Listerine strip thing. Your eyes will thank you.

Also, you don't think teenagers are more likely to do stupid things than older people are?

I guess I think teenagerhood is so much shorter than your wholelifehood that most stupid things aren't done by teenagers. I'm not sure how to get my point across properly, sadly.

Which is no doubt assisted by me having done few notable dumb things as a teen. Neither did the people I hung out with, or, really, most of the people in my year at school, as far as I could tell.

I think I read somewhere that the human brain isn't fully developed until around age 25--especially in areas of consequences and reckless behavior.

I do think teenagers, while not necessarily stupid, commit more stupid acts based on the immaturity levels of their brains and lack of experience.

I also think if HJO had been drunk or high, the press would have been all over it with speculation. Teenage boys drive too fast, almost as a rule. He could have just lost control of his car coming home from a date, party or a movie.

But then I'm wondering if I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt because I haven't seen him plastered all over the gossip press as a poster party boy.

I will speak only from my own experience: I, and my friends, did many stupid things when we were teenagers, most of which we would not do now.

This. Yes, DUI is bad, and if he was (utter unfounded speculation at this point) HJO could have killed himself, somebody else, many somebodies else, or all of the above. Thankfully he didn't. Whether this is a capital P Problem rather depends on HJO's behavior from here on out.

Skipping way ahead, because...

I noticed religious cereal yesterday. Ezekiel (let me google for the correct reference)...Ezekiel 4:9 cereal. Too odd. So odd it made me forget I had to ask them why they weren't carrying Alpen any more.

I'd seen that before, meant to look up the verse, then forgot about it. I looked it up today, when I came across it in my skim (which turned into a skip), because whenever I read a random verse someone's pulled out of context, for whatever reason, I like to read the whole chapter.

So. Yeah. I read all of Ezekiel 4. I'm stuck between wishing the people selling it had, and hoping they haven't.

Because context is important.