It's the same reason DH despises the term "character actor"--all parts are characters and actors are portraying them.
Never send a minion to do a god's work.
Glory ,'The Killer In Me'
The Minearverse 5: Closer to the Earth, Further from the Ax
[NAFDA] "There will be an occasional happy, so that it might be crushed under the boot of the writer." From Zorro to Angel (including Wonderfalls, The Inside and Drive), this is where Buffistas come to anoint themselves in the bloodbath.
Cashmere - Aug 15, 2006 2:20:35 pm PDT #824 of 10001
Now tagless for your comfort.
Betsy HP - Aug 15, 2006 3:33:27 pm PDT #825 of 10001
If I only had a brain...
You need some term for "person who isn't usually the hero" -- people like Denholm Elliott or Helen Broderick that you're always pleased to see but who are never the star.
Cashmere - Aug 15, 2006 3:35:13 pm PDT #826 of 10001
Now tagless for your comfort.
That's what I tell him, Betsy--but he just says that it's just a way of saying "ugly actor."
Strega - Aug 15, 2006 3:53:47 pm PDT #827 of 10001
Cindy, heh, it actually took me a second to figure out what you meant. Which proves the point! Anyway, yes, I find that confusing, too.
Jessica, I think the issue isn't that genre is too general a description, exactly, it's that it's not a description at all. It just means "type" not a particular type. So when something is described as a "genre show," my first reaction is, "Okay... which genre is it?" And then it takes me a second to realize what they mean.
It's like using "music" to only mean "punk rock." And I think I've typed "genre" enough now that it's lost all meaning. Genre genre genre.
Topic!Cindy - Aug 15, 2006 4:30:30 pm PDT #828 of 10001
What is even happening?
So when something is described as a "genre show," my first reaction is, "Okay... which genre is it?" And then it takes me a second to realize what they mean.Exactly, and I know plenty of people outside of fandom (and some within) that will use "genre" for material from another genre.
Possibly something from the Ringwald oevre.
Sorry. Nervous Buffy-tic. Hopefully Teppy will see that, and laugh.
Polter-Cow - Aug 15, 2006 4:47:46 pm PDT #829 of 10001
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!
Genre genre genre.
My soon-to-be-boss is named Jonra. It amuses me.
§ ita § - Aug 15, 2006 7:53:48 pm PDT #830 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
I think the issue isn't that genre is too general a description, exactly, it's that it's not a description at all. It just means "type" not a particular type. So when something is described as a "genre show," my first reaction is, "Okay... which genre is it?" And then it takes me a second to realize what they mean.
It is a description the moment the people using it (by producing or consuming) agree on what it means. I don't usually come down anti-prescriptivist, but I've never heard anyone use "genre show" to mean anything other than sff. So, when someone uses it, that's what I assume it means.
Oh, it may be dumb at the root, but I've never had a problem decoding it.
CaBil - Aug 15, 2006 8:58:31 pm PDT #831 of 10001
Remember, remember/the fifth of November/the Gunpowder Treason and Plot/I see no reason/Why Gunpowder Treason/Should ever be forgot.
I was working off of "It has to be respectful to SF fans but welcoming to casual viewers." That sounded like it meant something more specific than "it should be good." CaBil, can you clarify?
Ergh, spiraled a little more than I thought it would.
It shouldn't spit all over sci-fi conventions, treat its fans as a given or change the world rules at the drop of hat.
But neither should it require encyclopediac knowledge of the genre and/or series, rely on sci-fi tech sayings to drive its plot or rely on impenterable character motivations...
Topic!Cindy - Aug 16, 2006 7:00:04 am PDT #832 of 10001
What is even happening?
I read "genre fans" and think, "Which genre?" There might not be trouble decoding it in context, but I think it's lazy (and dumb at its root, as you say, ita).
My soon-to-be-boss is named Jonra. It amuses me.
Oh, yes! Is Jonra an Indian name, P-C?
Strega - Aug 16, 2006 7:04:57 am PDT #833 of 10001
CaBil -- Can I borrow the "be specific" cheer? I don't know what that really means. Changing the rules of its world, I understand. I think people find that flaw very easy to forgive, but it's certainly nicer if they don't have to. But the others...how exactly does a show treat its fans as a given? Or any other way, for that matter? And spitting on sci-fi conventions --hm, actually, do you mean literary conventions or, like, WorldCon? Either way, how does a show do that? And has any show ever required encyclopediac knowledge for comprehension, or relied on technobabble or impenetrabile motives?
I really am curious, so I hope it doesn't sound like I'm nitpicking. The things you're saying do sound like things one should avoid doing (except maybe the one about conventions, obviously, but I Have Issues). I just don't know if they ever happen, since I'm not sure what exactly you're describing.