Jayne (Husband): Oh, I think you might wanna reconsider that last part. See, I married me a powerful ugly creature. Mal (Wife): How can you say that? How can you shame me in front of new people? Jayne (Husband): If I could make you purtier, I would. Mal (Wife): You are not the man I met a year ago.

'Our Mrs. Reynolds'


The Minearverse 5: Closer to the Earth, Further from the Ax  

[NAFDA] "There will be an occasional happy, so that it might be crushed under the boot of the writer." From Zorro to Angel (including Wonderfalls, The Inside and Drive), this is where Buffistas come to anoint themselves in the bloodbath.


§ ita § - Aug 15, 2006 7:53:48 pm PDT #830 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I think the issue isn't that genre is too general a description, exactly, it's that it's not a description at all. It just means "type" not a particular type. So when something is described as a "genre show," my first reaction is, "Okay... which genre is it?" And then it takes me a second to realize what they mean.

It is a description the moment the people using it (by producing or consuming) agree on what it means. I don't usually come down anti-prescriptivist, but I've never heard anyone use "genre show" to mean anything other than sff. So, when someone uses it, that's what I assume it means.

Oh, it may be dumb at the root, but I've never had a problem decoding it.


CaBil - Aug 15, 2006 8:58:31 pm PDT #831 of 10001
Remember, remember/the fifth of November/the Gunpowder Treason and Plot/I see no reason/Why Gunpowder Treason/Should ever be forgot.

I was working off of "It has to be respectful to SF fans but welcoming to casual viewers." That sounded like it meant something more specific than "it should be good." CaBil, can you clarify?

Ergh, spiraled a little more than I thought it would.

It shouldn't spit all over sci-fi conventions, treat its fans as a given or change the world rules at the drop of hat.

But neither should it require encyclopediac knowledge of the genre and/or series, rely on sci-fi tech sayings to drive its plot or rely on impenterable character motivations...


Topic!Cindy - Aug 16, 2006 7:00:04 am PDT #832 of 10001
What is even happening?

I read "genre fans" and think, "Which genre?" There might not be trouble decoding it in context, but I think it's lazy (and dumb at its root, as you say, ita).

My soon-to-be-boss is named Jonra. It amuses me.

Oh, yes! Is Jonra an Indian name, P-C?


Strega - Aug 16, 2006 7:04:57 am PDT #833 of 10001

CaBil -- Can I borrow the "be specific" cheer? I don't know what that really means. Changing the rules of its world, I understand. I think people find that flaw very easy to forgive, but it's certainly nicer if they don't have to. But the others...how exactly does a show treat its fans as a given? Or any other way, for that matter? And spitting on sci-fi conventions --hm, actually, do you mean literary conventions or, like, WorldCon? Either way, how does a show do that? And has any show ever required encyclopediac knowledge for comprehension, or relied on technobabble or impenetrabile motives?

I really am curious, so I hope it doesn't sound like I'm nitpicking. The things you're saying do sound like things one should avoid doing (except maybe the one about conventions, obviously, but I Have Issues). I just don't know if they ever happen, since I'm not sure what exactly you're describing.


Polter-Cow - Aug 16, 2006 7:09:53 am PDT #834 of 10001
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

Oh, yes! Is Jonra an Indian name, P-C?

Nope. She is a Caucasian she-devil.


Topic!Cindy - Aug 16, 2006 7:17:43 am PDT #835 of 10001
What is even happening?

I don't recall ever hearing that name. I wonder if her parents are genre Sci-fi fantasy speculative fiction fans of stories which may involve (but are not limited to) advanced science and/or magic, or occur in the future, or take place in different dimensions, often involved world building, and may involve humanish characters which are not run-of-the-mill examples of homo sapiens.


Vortex - Aug 16, 2006 7:18:48 am PDT #836 of 10001
"Cry havoc and let slip the boobs of war!" -- Miracleman

Nope. She is a Caucasian she-devil.

so, like an Indian shiksa?


Polter-Cow - Aug 16, 2006 7:27:50 am PDT #837 of 10001
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

Maybe they were Star Wars fans.

so, like an Indian shiksa?

I...don't know.


Betsy HP - Aug 16, 2006 7:33:33 am PDT #838 of 10001
If I only had a brain...

The whole name thing gets fascinating. My daughter's best friend is Nishi. She's actually Indian, via Fiji, but her parents heard the Japanese girl's name Nishi and decided it was cool.


Vortex - Aug 16, 2006 7:36:37 am PDT #839 of 10001
"Cry havoc and let slip the boobs of war!" -- Miracleman

I...don't know.

a shiksa is a Yiddish term for a white woman. My understanding is that it has a vaguely negative connotation as in, "oy vey, my son is dating a shiksa!" I think that it can also have a funny/taken back connotation, as in my friend who is married to a jewish guy whose online name is "shiksagoddess"