sounds a lot like Molly's backstory in Neuromancer?

Yes. thank you I've been trying to think of that all morning but clearly my brain got damaged last night (I just read that for the first time a couple of months ago).

Regardless of how the premise will be received I'm excited to see what Joss & co. will do to twist it and defy people's expectations.

So I get Miracle Man and a Joss/Tim/Eliza project. This isn't b.org; it's heaven.

I love the premise, becaues it sounds like the story is about Eliza's character's waking up to the ways in which she's exploited. Go get 'em, Tim and Joss. I'll be sitting here in the corner weeping with joy.

*Sits with Topic!Cindy*

Hec do you have qualms about the premise, or qualms about how other people will react to the premise? I had thought the former, but your next post reads more like the latter.

Both. Though I'm fairly certain that Joss and Tim and Eliza combined will turn out interesting stories that are more than Maxim beat off material. However, I do think Joss has kind of a tin ear for how certain things will ping (Seeing Red, Dead Lesbian Cliches) and I think the immediate response to the show in the media will be to the iconography.

People who are used to seeing Buffy in a power stance or Zoe with a gun and holster are going to see Echo in a passive role without any agency. Even her name reflects that she doesn't have her own voice.

Particularly since he's created such strong women characters before, I think you'll see people feeling betrayed. Because it does come wrapped in a lot of exploitation/porn vibe.

I'm super excited about both; I went back and reread the article in the Hollywood Reporter about Miracle Man (not to be confused with Miracles), and it sounds just plain delightful. Not least because I'm reading MFK Fisher right now, and she's from Whittier, and I think Tim's from Whittier, and he says that'll be all influential and stuff. Either way, times are of the good.

P.S. K-Ville? No wonder you wanted a dinghy!

Not least because I'm reading MFK Fisher right now, and she's from Whittier, and I think Tim's from Whittier, and he says that'll be all influential and stuff.

I'm a pretty obsessed MFK Fisher fan. I wouldn't say I talk about her a lot, but when she died, three different friends called me to give their condolences and see if I was okay.

Both. Though I'm fairly certain that Joss and Tim and Eliza combined will turn out interesting stories that are more than Maxim beat off material. However, I do think Joss has kind of a tin ear for how certain things will ping (Seeing Red, Dead Lesbian Cliches) and I think the immediate response to the show in the media will be to the iconography.

Joss has been known to sing the praises of the incoherent text (see his post where he discusses his love of Die Hard. The board name he uses was 'no hatred' because he was having password troubles). That particular post is in response to the reaction to season 6/Tara's death, etc. It seems to me that's probably what he's going for, here.

Another mention: [link]

People who are used to seeing Buffy in a power stance or Zoe with a gun and holster are going to see Echo in a passive role without any agency. Even her name reflects that she doesn't have her own voice.

Maybe Echo is more comparable to River in that respect. The self discovery story sounds interesting to me.

*Sits with Topic!Cindy*

I'ma sit on her so she can't leave. Sorry, Cindy.

However, I do think Joss has kind of a tin ear for how certain things will ping (Seeing Red, Dead Lesbian Cliches) and I think the immediate response to the show in the media will be to the iconography.

This did come up in the back of my mind, though I was so psyched by the news I didn't let it come up in my post (I also pinged on the "primordial misogyny" episode of Angel and mentally winced a little). The fact that the dolls come in both sexes definitely offset that a little.