*Sits with Topic!Cindy*
I'ma sit on her so she can't leave. Sorry, Cindy.
Zoe: Nobody's saying that, sir. Wash: Yeah, we're pretty much just giving each other significant glances and laughing incessantly.
'Our Mrs. Reynolds'
The Minearverse 5: Closer to the Earth, Further from the Ax
[NAFDA] "There will be an occasional happy, so that it might be crushed under the boot of the writer." From Zorro to Angel (including Wonderfalls, The Inside and Drive), this is where Buffistas come to anoint themselves in the bloodbath.
lisah - Nov 01, 2007 7:01:47 am PDT #7240 of 10001
Punishingly Intricate
Frankenbuddha - Nov 01, 2007 7:05:46 am PDT #7241 of 10001
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"
However, I do think Joss has kind of a tin ear for how certain things will ping (Seeing Red, Dead Lesbian Cliches) and I think the immediate response to the show in the media will be to the iconography.
This did come up in the back of my mind, though I was so psyched by the news I didn't let it come up in my post (I also pinged on the "primordial misogyny" episode of Angel and mentally winced a little). The fact that the dolls come in both sexes definitely offset that a little.
Monique - Nov 01, 2007 7:05:48 am PDT #7242 of 10001
Tim answers three questions from TimMinear.net -- a.k.a., me.
lisah - Nov 01, 2007 7:12:32 am PDT #7243 of 10001
Punishingly Intricate
Tim answers three questions from TimMinear.net
hah! I love Tim's strike idea.
Zenkitty - Nov 01, 2007 7:18:18 am PDT #7244 of 10001
Every now and then, I think I might actually be a little odd.
New Joss/Tim show! *bounce*
The first thing I thought of was Molly in Neuromancer.
I think a lot of people will see it as girl exploitation, but sadly, I don't think that will cause the show to fail. I think it's more likely to help it stay on the air, all the blank-brained horny young males tuning in to see what sexy situation Echo is in this week. Although I doubt most of the stories will be sex fantasies, that's actually kinda dull. (But at least one has to be, you know! They ought to do that one, like ,second, because everybody will be waiting for it, just to get it out of the way and to grab the attention of the aforementioned males that all the stupid advertisers want to woo.)
I think naming her Echo was deliberate. I think this is going to be a long metaphor of female awakening to awareness of exploitation and awareness of personal power. Such a metaphor can't be done without including the exploitation, so there will certainly be exploitation on the screen. The important thing will be what's done with it after it's introduced. God, I hope it lasts. I have no trust ini Fox at all to keep even that 7-episode committment.
Kevin - Nov 01, 2007 7:33:04 am PDT #7245 of 10001
Never fall in love with somebody you actually love.
Fox? Ordering episodes of something then misscheduling and cancelling something after 6 episodes? That doesn't happen. Much.
Yeah, Whedon's all about his names, and Echo says it all.
P.M. Marc - Nov 01, 2007 7:54:37 am PDT #7246 of 10001
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear
Hey, Hec, you've spoken for me! And more coherently than I can without more coffee!
Both. Though I'm fairly certain that Joss and Tim and Eliza combined will turn out interesting stories that are more than Maxim beat off material. However, I do think Joss has kind of a tin ear for how certain things will ping (Seeing Red, Dead Lesbian Cliches) and I think the immediate response to the show in the media will be to the iconography.
Right. And it'll be a tricky balance. I'm sure I'll probably watch, enjoy, and also want to throw things at the writers. Hell, I've got plenty of practice, what with comics and Supernatural.
And as much as it sounds like Echo's going to be discovering the joys of agency (it's like Ibsen! updated!), for me, starting from a baseline of Exploited Female for your central character is problematic.
This doesn't make it bad TV viewing, but it does give me pause.
Jessica - Nov 01, 2007 7:58:46 am PDT #7247 of 10001
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset
And as much as it sounds like Echo's going to be discovering the joys of agency (it's like Ibsen! updated!), for me, starting from a baseline of Exploited Female for your central character is problematic.
This, exactly.
Kevin - Nov 01, 2007 8:05:33 am PDT #7248 of 10001
Never fall in love with somebody you actually love.
Problematic in what way? Or rather, from what level I suppose?
(I'm not being awkward - just curious)
Strega - Nov 01, 2007 8:05:39 am PDT #7249 of 10001
Particularly since he's created such strong women characters before, I think you'll see people feeling betrayed.If people feel betrayed by the iconography of a television show... I don't think the creators should care. I dunno, I'm not really concerned about whether it's awarded the same number of feminist points that Buffy (somewhat inexplicably) got.