This is the first time Tim's done a show where there's an assload of publicity, and the full support of the network and studio, because they love it.

Is a fact.

You're coming at this solely from your experience with cult television from an internet standpoint. You're seeing things from the perspective of someone outside the states, who isn't soaking in the promotion.

Is also a fact.

From your post, what I gather is that you are worried that the American public is not interested in Drive because of lack of internet traffic/discussion.

It isn't my opinion that internet traffic/discussion of a show has little to nothing to do with whether the American public (which is enormous, you know) is interested in Drive. That's a fact, that bears out time and again.

Your worry is baseless. You can of course feel that way. But it's not rational, which should make you feel better.

You'll get your clue on interest level when the nielsen data comes in, with the rest of us.

That's a fact, that bears out time and again.

Not always.

I'm not going to go on about the issue, because it's gettin' tiresome for all involved. I feel differently to you on an issue, Allyson, and I'd appreciate it if you respect both that, and me.

Earlier today, Kevin said, "But I think we all know that online buzz isn't always a good indicater of offline interest," so honestly, I can't figure out what stance either of you are taking, never mind why you're taking it.

I'm tired of this thread turning into let's everyone walk on eggshells, while Kevin and Allyson get on each other's nerves, and I can't imagine ever speaking freely about the show in here, once/if I watch.

I'm tired of this thread turning into let's everyone walk on eggshells, while Kevin and Allyson get on each other's nerves, and I can't imagine ever speaking freely about the show in here, once/if I watch.

I agree. I thought that the point of this thread was to discuss Tim's work (and soaps and crafts, obviously). If we can only discuss from one point of view, where's the fun in that? Kerfuffle or kerfauxfle, I think it's getting kind of old.

Of course, I have a hard enough time keeping up with b.org, so if it's just me and Cindy, or just me, that's ok too.

I don't appreciate being thread mommied, so much. But if we're going there, I'll join in.

I'm perfectly willing to take my issues with Kevin's posting to Bureau. I am driven to my wits end with the constant ripping off of Monique's content and coming here to talk about it without crediting her in the very thread she's posting in.

I'm tired of the constant self-aggrandizement, the boasting. It's much easier to call me on using the term "Chicken Little," than it is to call someone on a constant annoying, ugly habit of bragging.

I'm understanding of it, I can see a bit of myself in it, but it is completely sucking my enjoyment of what was once a very playful thread.

I don't ever feel that way about Jackal's posts of information, which in tone come from a place of selfless joy. Kevin's posts consistently come from a place of boasting about the awesomeness of Kevin. It's an ugly BNF thing that doesn't actually fit, here.

And FTR? If I behaved the way Kevin behaves, with the consistent boasting? I'm willing to bet that there'd be a great many people here calling me on it.

I stand by the point that online buzz isn't always a good indicator of mass interest. That's not to say it isn't sometimes, though -- there's an entire viral marketing industry earning billions of dollars based around it, and if online buzz means nothing, somebody needs to tell that industry.

Oh dear and fluffy lord. What?

I'm such an idiot.

Can I please turn back time?

I swear I reread the post a hundred times to make sure I was being totally honest.

But I didn't think about WHETHER I should post it.

How long have I been using the internets? Seriously?

and if online buzz means nothing, somebody needs to tell that industry.

People have, and continue to. I have never seen a single study or investigative news report that showing that online buzz measures anything but the level of online buzz. By every measurement I've ever seen, it's as meaningless for television as it is for politics.

It doesn't affect marketing budgets because marketing departments are run by upper middle management types who like things that are shiny and new. The internet is very shiny and new, doesn't mean it's effective. I love the internet, but I don't kid myself that we're not a niche audience were mass media is concerned.

Allyson, I'm not going anywhere near your subject matter, because that's not the point.

You are thread mommying too. You don't like what Kevin says, then argue the points. There's no room left over for discourse, though, considering the amount of anger you're posting with.

Your wish for a playful thread is being sabotaged by your own posting. Not to mention the community standard of civility.