I'm tired of this thread turning into let's everyone walk on eggshells, while Kevin and Allyson get on each other's nerves, and I can't imagine ever speaking freely about the show in here, once/if I watch.

I agree. I thought that the point of this thread was to discuss Tim's work (and soaps and crafts, obviously). If we can only discuss from one point of view, where's the fun in that? Kerfuffle or kerfauxfle, I think it's getting kind of old.

Of course, I have a hard enough time keeping up with b.org, so if it's just me and Cindy, or just me, that's ok too.

I don't appreciate being thread mommied, so much. But if we're going there, I'll join in.

I'm perfectly willing to take my issues with Kevin's posting to Bureau. I am driven to my wits end with the constant ripping off of Monique's content and coming here to talk about it without crediting her in the very thread she's posting in.

I'm tired of the constant self-aggrandizement, the boasting. It's much easier to call me on using the term "Chicken Little," than it is to call someone on a constant annoying, ugly habit of bragging.

I'm understanding of it, I can see a bit of myself in it, but it is completely sucking my enjoyment of what was once a very playful thread.

I don't ever feel that way about Jackal's posts of information, which in tone come from a place of selfless joy. Kevin's posts consistently come from a place of boasting about the awesomeness of Kevin. It's an ugly BNF thing that doesn't actually fit, here.

And FTR? If I behaved the way Kevin behaves, with the consistent boasting? I'm willing to bet that there'd be a great many people here calling me on it.

I stand by the point that online buzz isn't always a good indicator of mass interest. That's not to say it isn't sometimes, though -- there's an entire viral marketing industry earning billions of dollars based around it, and if online buzz means nothing, somebody needs to tell that industry.

Oh dear and fluffy lord. What?

I'm such an idiot.

Can I please turn back time?

I swear I reread the post a hundred times to make sure I was being totally honest.

But I didn't think about WHETHER I should post it.

How long have I been using the internets? Seriously?

and if online buzz means nothing, somebody needs to tell that industry.

People have, and continue to. I have never seen a single study or investigative news report that showing that online buzz measures anything but the level of online buzz. By every measurement I've ever seen, it's as meaningless for television as it is for politics.

It doesn't affect marketing budgets because marketing departments are run by upper middle management types who like things that are shiny and new. The internet is very shiny and new, doesn't mean it's effective. I love the internet, but I don't kid myself that we're not a niche audience were mass media is concerned.

Allyson, I'm not going anywhere near your subject matter, because that's not the point.

You are thread mommying too. You don't like what Kevin says, then argue the points. There's no room left over for discourse, though, considering the amount of anger you're posting with.

Your wish for a playful thread is being sabotaged by your own posting. Not to mention the community standard of civility.

You know, ita. I hit post. And wanted to delete for the very reasons stating with regard to civility, but that's totally bad form. For that, I apologize to Buffistas, and especially to Kevin.

I completely don't understand this:

You don't like what Kevin says, then argue the points.

Okay. Yes. Where's the issue in that?

You are thread mommying too.

I don't actually agree.

This could have been resolved with a MARCIE, and that's foolishness on my part, since I appear to be the only one grinding my teeth in irritation.

i'm not grinding per se, Allyson. i do see and agree with your point that Kevin seems to suffer from self-aggrandizing his posts about Drive here in an effort to achieve BNF status. but like i said, no gnashing. just eyerolling and scrolling on by.

Okay, I said to myself I wasn't to respond to Allyson's attempt at character -- er, poster -- assassination because it's both rude and misinformed, but to take one point on:

The BNF thing. Last year, I had to ask what a BNF was. Personally, I find the whole thing quite laughable and occasionally scary (and I did experience the strangeness of it with the drip drip of information from Serenity with Universal). With Drive fandom, I've changed to the name Kevin (about as generic as it gets), and barely post on Drive Fans. Bits of things I've posted in this topic have been drip dripped to me from FOX's marketing department. Some of those have then been mocked or whatnot for already being available.

I post them here -- FOX's Myspace, ifilm clips yada -- because they're about Drive. I figure people might like them. I have absolutely no desire to be a BNF. If I did, I'd be all gossi'ed up and all over the thing. I am a fan of Tim's work, and intend to stay that way. If people don't want me to post Drive things of interest, say so.

What I have noticed is, frankly, when people try to discuss Drive at the minute on this topic, it ain't workin'. There's either a barney about who's given credit to who for linking something, a disagreement about being negative etc. We could all do with sorting that out, as I'd like this to be a place where I can discuss the episodes as they air in comfort, something which I'm sure I'm not the only one who's fearful 'bout doing.