I've watched entirely too much Teen Titans this morning. I'm going to have to make up for it by being extra-productive this afternoon. I hope!

I'm pretty sure the only "us" was us people - the same us the U.S. and China have today.

I'm sorry--I don't get it.

My assumption was that there is a "We are people" us. And then when the white man comes, there is a "we are not those people" us. Neither of those concepts require an invasion.

I think Gar took your question as asking if there was an all-over-this-land, i.e., contintental "us" - that's how I parsed the answer anyway. But I think you were really looking at the more localized tribal/band/group us - "us" here in this clearing as opposed to "them" on the other side of the valley. Which I think there demonstrably was. Am I reading you both right?

Actually maybe not, now that I read you again.

I think there are all sorts of us, and not all of them require a them (well, not a human them). And not all of them require an invasion. But the idea that there is a West Indies of which I'm a part doesn't mean I'm claiming kinship or similarity with a Trinidadian.

I don't think it's a rare concept. In fact, I think it's human.

Okay, off to teach fledgling kravvers. Wish me luck.

Anyone speak better French than me?

Is porte verrouillée the proper phrase for "locked door"?

Crap -- afternoon yoga classes were cancelled. I'll just have to find something else athletical to do. ::looks meaningfully at neglected backyard::

spider in my shower. hanging there bu its thread, eye level. Luckily did not walk into it. Luckily a little tiny one. Bye Bye down the drain for you.

I think there are all sorts of us, and not all of them require a them (well, not a human them). And not all of them require an invasion. But the idea that there is a West Indies of which I'm a part doesn't mean I'm claiming kinship or similarity with a Trinidadian.

I agree not all us's require a them. But ethnic identity, as opposed to simply "we humans" does require a them. I'm sure related nations had some sort of ethnic identiy - the Hopi and Navaho compared to the Aztecs perhaps. But I doubt that a pair of continents full of people though of themselves as one ethnic group. In point of fact you wil note that American Indians actually prefer to not to think of themselves as a single ethnic groups even today - feeling that that particular ethnicity was a creation of the invaders. And I'm saying all the evidence was that they are right. Races, nationalities ethinicities are all social creations, that distinguish between people. Why have those without the other to distiguish between. Suppose the West Indies was the only inhabited part of the world and you live there? You might think of it as a geographical entity - humans live here, other things live everywhere else. But if you were thinking of all the people in that area why would you think of them as anything but "humanity" or the "the people" or whatever. Why would you think of that "us" being ethnically from the West Indies, if all humans live in the West Indie and were from West Indies? I wonder if I'm misunderstanding you here, answering an argument you are not making.

Erin - doesn't Deborah speak fluent French? and Raq?

Erin, my French is a little rusty (though I've been trying to get it better -- language exam for my Ph. D. will be sometime next year), but I'm pretty sure that's right.