Martyrology is not for the squeamish.

It's great if you have a black sense of humor, though.

My friend Josh threw a St. Ursula party in college.

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Hil, did you get through the NT book called "Acts" or "The Acts of the Apostles"? That's probably the best vision of the early church, post Jesus, but pre Holy Roman Empire.

Nope. I read Matthew, then most of Mark, then started flipping through and read the beginning of John because it seemed more interesting than Luke. Didn't really get anywhere beyond that. (Perhaps I'll try some more later on. I've got a copy of the New Testament at my office. It's the version published by the Promise Keepers. It was left there by the previous occupant of my office. Along with several Chick Tracts. The previous occupant of my office, by the way, was Muslim.)

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Along with several Chick Tracts. The previous occupant of my office, by the way, was Muslim

Who was probably given those wretched Tracts in an attempt to "save" him. Please, they're dreck, don't take them seriously.

edit: Heck, I don't even identify as Christian anymore, and I'm trying to protect the religion.

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I'd be a little leery of a Promise Keepers edition myself. Though I don't in fact know whether they just use a standard edition and relabel - might not be anything hinky.

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I'd be a little leery of a Promise Keepers edition myself. Though I don't in fact know whether they just use a standard edition and relabel - might not be anything hinky.

The Promise Keepers put their imprint on regular translations (or paraphrases) of the Christian version of the Bible (probably published by the Zondervan). They include a study guide or something similar and that's why they call it that. It's most likely a New Living Translation Hil has in her office, which I think of as more of a paraphrase and don't actually like for any sort of study because of that, but for reading it's fine, Hil. (It's the study guides where the hink could be.)

The Muslim had Chick tracts too, huh? Huh.

I haven't seen all of Frontline's From Jesus to Christ. I think I'd have some historical quibbles with some of their presentation (and know I certainly theological ones, but that's neither here nor there since you're looking for history) based on what I've seen of some of those scholars on History Channel productions, and the like. That said, I imagine they're pretty solid on the build up of what eventually became the Roman Catholic church, though.

Basically, from what I remember from Western Civ., when Constantine converted (or "converted" -- I'm not sure) he finally legalized the religion, which had been persecuted until that point (although it enjoyed short periods of tolerance, off and on). Over time, the Empire co-opted the church's power, and the church co-opted the Empire's power.

Bishop grew into a rather grand office from its early beginnings. In the beginning, Christians were a heretical sect of Judaism, in Jerusalem, and looked on as Weird Jews by the rest of the Empire (who already thought Jews were Weird to begin with). You might not even see the word "Bishop" in the translation of the NT that you have. You might see elder, deacon, overseer, or something simliar, instead.

Popes (fathers) came from Bishops. Each main cosmopolitan area had a bishop. The bishops started jockeying for power. The bishop at Rome was the bishop of the Holy Roman Empire. That's when everything started to get glitzy.

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Lemme splain. No, is too much. Lemme sum up. Christians are delicious to lions and also very flammable. Declining empires have great fun with same. Eastern half of empire (much less decline-y) wins a battle after some vague cross-y dream symbolism. Christians become much less delicious to lions and are dosed with flame-retardant.

Churches spread westward, and as usual the white people screw it up. Eastern and western churches get divorced. There are a bunch of councils about itty bitty doctrinal issues hardly anybody cares about (anyway, 96% of the laity is illiterate, so you could have told them the Bible is full of evil overlord aliens and -- wait, wrong religion). Rome does a bunch of land-grabs, and develops an army, and stays in Rome despite the Holy Roman Empire slowly migrating into Germany. There are oblations and plagues and processions in the streets against plagues and xenophobic land-grab crusades and various orders that pun in Latin. (The Dominicans? domini canes, hounds of the lord. They were the prosecutors in the Inquisition.)

And then? A bunch more white people screw it up. They get divorced from the Roman church in various flavors of protest and/or gigantic land grab. Rome reforms, the Jesuits get started, there are a bunch more wars and massacrees and altogether re-enactments of material from "Alice's Restaurant." And now we're up to about 1650 -- lather, rinse, repeat.

So, really, it's all about divorces, land-grabs, and itty bitty doctrinal issues. Also being put to death in exciting and distinctive format, that others may be lessoned in morality by how well you bore being sliced to death with sharpened edges of envelopes.

Wait, I left out the invention of cheese: orders of monks are key in the invention of cheese.

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Churches spread westward, and as usual the white people screw it up. Eastern and western churches get divorced. There are a bunch of councils about itty bitty doctrinal issues hardly anybody cares about (anyway, 96% of the laity is illiterate, so you could have told them the Bible is full of evil overlord aliens and -- wait, wrong religion). Rome does a bunch of land-grabs, and develops an army, and stays in Rome despite the Holy Roman Empire slowly migrating into Germany. There are oblations and plagues and processions in the streets against plagues and xenophobic land-grab crusades and various orders that pun in Latin. (The Dominicans? domini canes, hounds of the lord. They were the prosecutors in the Inquisition.)

Yes, but it had already gone from Weird Jews to Screwed Up White People with lots of money and power way before the east/west splits, crusades, inquisitions, etc.

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Yes, but did the Orthodox High Muckety Muck of Russia ever claim that Russia was in France? No! Although, by the way Hil, I forgot to mention that there was a second Babylonian Captivity, although it was in Avignon, which as captivities go isn't too bad, but anyway there were Popes and anti-Popes, and they never met so as not to cause a massive nuclear explosion.

And then the Papacy moved back to Rome, which is good, because I'm not sure Michelangelo would have traveled all the way to Avignon.

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There may have been crossy-dream symbolism, or it may have been purely political.

There was also regular persecution of the Jews, selling absolution, adding celibacy so that monks would have no one else to leave their money to, bishops who were criticized for having "too many" illegitimate children, the ever-multiplying number of saints' incorruptible body parts, Benedictine and possibly champagne.

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IE, a good idea got taken over by committees and it all went to hell.

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