...see, now, that's just confusing. (On top of squicky.) They've never even met.

Like that ever stops anyone!

Well, that's true.

I am almost positive I've read this story.

Sounds pretty basic.

Jack is fun, and he's even funnier when he's outraged.

So, yeah, I posted a story yesterday.

Bellum Interruptum. AU, Farscape/Casablanca crossover. No spoilers past 411, but it spins off canon at 322, if that makes any sense.

My brother and I were talking in the car tonight, and the idea of a corporate conflict (or whatever) between Luthorcorp and Wayne Enterprises. He's only up on the cartoon continuity, and I have even less of it than he does, so if there's something in the comics, well, we wouldn't know.

So, is there canon or fic around this bunny, o, ye wonderous hivemind?

Consuela, I love your Farscape/Casablanca story!

Re. fandoms received systems of 'shipping. I was having a conversation with a non-fannish friend a few weeks ago, and he asked what fandom I was engaged in. I said, "Hmm, BtVS, mostly because I'm sympathetic to and fond of its basic polyamorous structure," and went on to mention that I had a couple read-only fandoms, like *Nsync. I don't think he had heard of RPF; he asked me what *Nsync fandom was like.

Logorrheic, I repost:

From what I've seen: *Nsync fandom is *incredibly* polyamorous, totally more than BtVS, crazily so. That's because it's about real people-- there's no actual basic *mythology* (except what the viewers impose, or are encouraged to impose by the group's PR), no canon beyond a timeline.

Most TV-show fandoms are arranged around a central OTP, whether canon or fanon. Canon in a fandom context, I don't know if you know this, means "show-given or tptb-sanctioned fact". Fanon-- not to be mistaken for sociologist Franz Fanon, it makes me laugh all the time-- means ideas used so much in fic or in fannish discussion they become almost received and used as canon in the hive-mind of the fans. Sometimes it's just a detail about a character which was not supplied by canon, like someone's middle name, and sometimes it's a set of ideas that totally contradict what canon has told us, e.g. Fanon!Draco, coming out of HP, who is smart and sexy and snarky and bisexual and wears leather pants, God knows why, God love him.

What was I going to say? I was going to say, Most shows are intentionally arranged around a central OTP, for simplicity of plot and streamlining of fannish devotion. Fans may subvert this-- there's a handful of, say, Sloane/Sydney 'shippers out there, and they're self-aware and silly or passionate and righteous, whatever, but the show is firmly Sydney/Vaughn and the fandom is highly Sydney/Vaughn (and Sydney/Sark, which some people say is very textually supported and some people do not). That's Alias I'm taking about. You probably don't know it.

But some fandoms are incredibly poly, and since they are the exception to the rule they tend to be poly for different reasons or in different ways. BtVS has pretty strong canonical support for as many 'ships as there are characters! ( that's characters factorial); Joss Whedon the show's creator has acknowledged it publically. *Nsync is very poly for the sheer virtue of the fact that it *doesn't* have canon; as someone who's only read but has read extensively-- meep!-- at this point, I'm aware of the distinct personalities (apparent-in-their-lives or just fanon, the distinction isn't relevant here since it's really in practical terms *all* fanon) of the different *Nsync guys, and could describe them to you if you asked (please don't ask). But I personally feel no organic impetus to favor or find more realistic one 'ship over another. That sort of direction is *completely* provided by all the show's [*] boyband's fans, their whims and libidos.

HP is kind of a mix of the two: the source text is strongly ensemble by nature, despite the fact that it has a titular character. The canon does provide outright or suggest various 'ships-- Harry/Cho, for one, um; Harry/Ginny, Hermione/Ron-- but truly the canon is fairly *weak*, it's a badly-written series, and it's telling that the fandom's strongest 'ship is Harry/Draco, which is actually *completely* unsupported in the texts. The fact is that HP is a weakly-written (as I said) serial that is being released *very* slowly, which means that 1) its fans approach canon not so much as their bible as their playground and equipment 2) they have *a ton* of time in which to do it. ... And I'm done. That has been my speech on fandom polyamory.

[*] When he asked, I explained that I did the strikeout as a joke to indicate that although they are in fact real people I do process them as a fictional show, a text to be plundered, as-- I think-- do most of people in fandom.

SA and I had a conversation the other day about the liberating aspects of the near-total lack of canon in Popslash. Not somewhere I've delved (yet) but I do find the contrast between that and show-fandom very interesting.

Thank you, Rebecca! Nice to hear.

Interesting thoughts, RL. I'm starting to think that it's only the fact of the fandom's polyamory that got me into HP at all-- if they'd been as OTPish as, say, Stargate is with Jack/Sam and/or Jack/Daniel, or as OTPish as Smallville is with Clark/Lex, I'd never have bothered. But HP is very widespread-- being so big, having so many different TPs-- and the ability that gives the fanfic reader to explore so many different sides of the text is stupendous.

SA and I had a conversation the other day about the liberating aspects of the near-total lack of canon in Popslash. Not somewhere I've delved (yet) but I do find the contrast between that and show-fandom very interesting.

I came around to this point recently in thinking about RPS and why I'm not into it-- the answer is, now (and this has changed), not that I'm put off by writing about 'real' people, because I quite see that they're considered in fictional terms, but that what interests me in a character to begin with is their canon, and without that firm canon I'm never going to go looking for fanfic. Of course, that does send me looking for fanfic about characters who have good canon and little or no fanfic, as my recent hunts for Minder and Seinfeld fic illustrate. I confess that the occassions when it works the other way around-- the fanfic sends me looking for the canon, as in Smallville, or sends me back to the canon with renewed vigour, as in HP (where I was sadly disappointed, and ran back to the fanon PDQ)-- are a bit of a problem to this theory, but I think it is true that lack of canon makes me shy away from the fandoms-- the little bits of LOTR RPS I read, for example, were good, but they didn't make me hunt for more, or even start watching the little bits that could be considered their canon, the DVD extras and such.

Um. Went on a little longer than I meant to, there.

the little bits of LOTR RPS I read, for example, were good, but they didn't make me hunt for more, or even start watching the little bits that could be considered their canon, the DVD

See, I read a bit of Dom/Billy Lotrips, and was completely and totally sucked in, all while feeling guilty about enjoying it. I haven't read much else, and I have to say that for some reason LOtR RPS sucks me LESS than mst NC-17 Hobbit fic especially after I accidently saw a (bad) photomanip of a naked and cuddling Pippin/Merry! There is something about the humor and friendship dynamic of that particular relationship (dom/Billy) as it is written by some authors that I just adore. However, I could use a BIT less of the "one of them is going crazy/going to kill himself" fics. There is just about one or two of those that I like.

As a reader I do tend to be pretty OTPish with the exception of things that are recommended to me. That is I will read a certain pairing until I am glutted-- Buffy/Spike (which I don't read any more except Herself) Josh/Donna, Lorelai/Luke, Pacey/Joey, and Dom/Billy (Lotrips). Dom/Billy is a new one for me, but I have read almost everything I have found of the others. I do try to stop reading if my eyes roll back up in my head too much, but with certain pairings it seems that there is a lot of eye-rolling inducing fic.

However, when I am recommended a story by a good author, especially here, that isn't one of those pairings, I love it! What a nice thing to have a well written interesting fic. I think this relates to my non-fic reading habits-- plenty and plenty of crappy romance novels and mysteries to relax and unwind interspesed with books that move me and make me just want to be inside them

Also WRT to PRE-SLASH:

I dislike that word for purely personal reasons-- it makes me think of the word pre-come. Which is a word I prefer not too see in my fics most of the time, although it is better than many alternativs that I can think of (secretions comes to mind)