So the Mary Sue discussion gives me an idea for ... a Mary Sue. Or an OFC, anyhow.

Is it stretching canon too far top give Willow an older quasi-sister? I was thinking of her mother's stepdaughter from a previous marriage, specifically -- someone who might view Willow as family of a sort, but not someone she was raised with.

Make her a cousin that she used to hang around a lot with when younger or something. Cousins are useful relatives.

Cousin might be good. Thanks.

(I don't know if this one will ever make it past the first graph and outline I have in my head right now. Don't expect to see it anytime soon, in any rate. Not that you would, but I like lowering expectations.)

Always glad to help at this stage, sometimes I think this is the most fun.

Rheanna and Yahtzee's newest story is up. I know it's at Yahtzee's site, not sure if it's hit the BFA.

Oooh! URL?

[link]

Here's Yatzee's site.

[link]

Mirror site is up. Same as the regular address, but expect this to be the full-time version in a month or two.

There are clearly definitions of Mary Sue to which I don't subscribe, from the list this lassie made in her LJ. For my part I am entirely well disposed to well-written original characters of either gender and I'm not going to start angsting over whether they're Mary Sues, because if they're well written they aren't Mary Sues, imho.

I interpret a Mary Sue in two ways. One is as a character who is a transparent self-insertion. This isn't neccesarily always a bad thing, and since all our characters (including our interpretations of characters made by other people) are neccesarily made out of ourselves, to a greater or lesser degree one could always argue for such-and-such a character being a Mary Sue. It's only a problem if it's badly written and/or uninteresting, which is generally the case. (I like Elizabeth Bennet, but I think she's quite close to Jane Austen in many respects.)

The other main definition of Mary Sue imho is the paragon. And this doesn't mean Buffy or John Crichton or whoever, because the whole point, imho, is that a Mary Sue is flat and poorly realised. That there isn't a believable person underneath the trappings of heroism. Not simply that she has such-and-such a power, or such-and-such an eye colour, or that some quirk of fate makes her pivotal to the survival of blah blah blah destinycakes - what makes a character (male of female) into a Mary Sue is that she is less than the sum of her parts. She's dull. It's all surface.

I've only once read something in fanfic that I really considered a Mary Sue (I tend not to go trawling for fic). It was when I first got started with the fanfic thing and had written a couple of stories and wanted to find a beta, but didn't know anyone else who did the fanfic thing. There are sites where people offer to beta, and I followed a link to this girl's fiction to see what it was like before asking her to beta for me. It started out painlessly enough, and indeed was quite interesting, but gradually we had the introduction of a character who turned out to be Giles's secret long-lost daughter, who was so expert in ancient languages that she could correct his translations, who became best friends with Willow, hung out with Oz and the band, inspired Faith with the urge to protect her and started dating Xander....

Which isn't to say that it was a terrible story, but it wasn't my cup of tea because the original character was at the centre and the other characters - the ones in whom I was interested - were simply reacting to her. In a universally positive way. I can see that this was enjoyable for that particular writer and I'm sure it was some people's cup of tea, but for me, not so much, so I stopped reading.

If you're interested in the canonical characters, then seeing them being reduced to foils for a shiny new character is what sets of the Mary Sue alarm. Introducing (an) interesting new character(s) to interact with them plausibly is another kettle of fish. (Take a bow AJ Hall.) Hell, by many definitions Lorne should be a Mary Sue, and so should Dawn and Connor, but I don't consider them that way because I think they've been well-developed and they don't come across as gratingly perfect or twee. To me. I know other people dislike Dawn and Connor (and perhaps Lorne?).

....oh, and suddenly I'm remembering that Groo is out there somewhere. Oh, bless him. Certainly he should have been a Mary Groo if judged simply by a list of qualities, but I didn't see him as one because he was played very effectively (imho) for laughs.

I miss Groo.

t /lone voice of Groo-love.