I know I'm not, because I too am writing LJslash, but they, at least, are consenting to the process. For me, that's an important boundary.

Ah! See, for me-- this is part of what I wrote to my slashee when she'd emailed me:

[she asked if I were studying her]

I've added you to my LJ friends. When I finish my current writing project, which, god hoping, will happen as soon as fucking possible, I'm going to go read your LJ from top to bottom, and your co-slashee's too, and then dig up every fic I possibly can by each of you.

Then I'll try to think of a plot.

But I think-- this, see, I've got several very intricate theories about fic, and fandom, and fetishization of a text, and the aggressive act of fic-writing; and, I think, to *properly* *slash* someone I ought to take the role of fan, and obsessively study what she does, instead of actually meeting her on equal, personal terms.

I'm going to fetishize your text! Ooh baby.

In other words-- I don't think I ought to talk to you very much. I've got to synthesize and internalize my own idea of your authentic voice, and take my own liberties with you; if it's actually very different from what you'd have wanted for yourself, well, it's *fic*! It's *real-person* fic. That's exactly how this works.

[...]

Like, Fay's lovely, lovely Wes/PMM story? It's fic for Wesley. But, I don't think, it's not really *PMM* fic. PMM fic should, properly, be written without her permission, by someone who doesn't know PMM on a personal level at all. Instead, it was a gift from one friend to another.

That's what I believe. So this is going to be a very interesting exercise. I have my slashee's permission, I can't help that; but I'm going to try hard not to do anything else.

I don't read RPF, and I try not to find out about the actors when I can, because I would find it all too easy to cross that line into writing RPF.

And that's another interesting thing again - because I have no urge to write RPF. None.

I didn't consider it to be about Orlando, or Dom, or Billy or Elijah, or Viggo - because I'm not interested in their love lives

I will, however, take this opportunity, since I'm 300 posts behind in LotR and have no desire to catch up right now, to share that I learned recently that Viggo Mortenson's son (who he credits with convincing him to take the part) is also the son of punk legend Exene Cervenka. Which, as an old X fan, I found extremely cool.

Carry on.

Ah.

...other than the RPF I wrote about Ple for the LJ slash. Huh. But - not the same? Or at least, it doesn't feel the same. As RL said - that it was more like a gift for a friend, and a joke/not joke, um, more like a flight of fancy. A very, very pretentious flight of fancy and an exercise in meta. Without, I think, much tittilation. But I know you folks have a tradition of writing the Spike/Bitch slash, in the past? And it was like that. Which isn't, quite, the same as the LotR RPF, or the Puppyslash.

Or is it?

Perhaps I'm deceiving myself here. Huh.

I don't read RPF, and I try not to find out about the actors when I can, because I would find it all too easy to cross that line into writing RPF.

I do learn some things about actors, but oddly, if anything, it totally discourages me from any RPF leanings in the actor-fic direction.

The sparkley boys, they've got these characters they play on stage, with the same names as them, but they're still characters, or at least that's what it seems like. I don't want to know about them, the people. I'm sure they're lovely people, with actual thoughts and opinions. But what you see on-stage seems no more real to me than the Monkees.

Same with Political fic. I've read some Thatcher slash, I'll admit. I almost wrote some HK a moment ago.

My lines are distinct, but very personal.

But I know you folks have a tradition of writing the Spike/Bitch slash, in the past? And it was like that. Which isn't, quite, the same as the LotR RPF, or the Puppyslash.

Or is it?

I think it's the idea of consent, here. Me, I'm uncomfortable enough with the whole idea that I never let myself be porned. I did have some good fight scenes written with me in, though, and I like those. I just wouldn't make a habit of having them written about me.

Which is in no small way why I happily write myself into most of the fic I've done. How consentier can you get?

But I know you folks have a tradition of writing the Spike/Bitch slash, in the past? And it was like that. Which isn't, quite, the same as the LotR RPF, or the Puppyslash.

Or is it?

I think it's the idea of consent, here.

Wrod, ita. For me, when it's consent, *it's not fic*. The idea of non-consent (or non-specific consent, maybe, at least) is integral to the definition of fic, for me.

Is there a line for you, RL, where the adrenaline rush won't make it interesting? Is there a genre that would make you stand up and scream DON'T WRITE THAT!!!

Yeah.

When it's badly written. Then I either go EWWW! or God. That's boring. Probably both.

But if it's well-written RPF? I guess, I guess I'd just have that mix of "this is good writing" and "this is BAD WRONG BAD and a little bit boring (*)" and the intellectual appreciation of the adrenaline-rushing bit.

(*) OK. Because, yes, I'm thinking about it, and I can't imagine really *being* *interested* in RPF. Which is very puzzling to me. I'm trying to articulate why, but it feels a little disingenuous to say "I'm not invested in the characters, the way I am Willow or Lex", because that's certainly not stopped me from falling in love with new original-fic characters, or, say, Wax Jism's The Faculty series I devoured last night. I just... this is so weird. I can't explain! I'm thinking about anyone, Alyson Hannigan, Michael Rosenbaum, the fucking Pope-- I'm presenting myself with hypothetical gorgeously-written stories, about real people, and can't make myself really get interested. *Huh*.

So it's true, that I do appreciate them on an intellectual level; but it seems to be true that that's only a very *abstract* thing. I can appreciate that they're being done. I don't, however, seem to be very interested in the actual stories.

[edited for formatting 'cause I'm a dork]

blink

Ah. Okay - something spooky happened with your post there, but it's all fine now. As you were.

Sorry. Did you see I edited? Cut-and-paste error. I'm an idiot.

This is where writing attitudes differ, I suppose. I write about characters I know. I know it's a fantasy, but I feel that if I met Spike (or any of the other characters I slash/write) I could guess what he was going to say next and possibly how he'd move as he said it.

I talk to these characters, after all. I basically role-play them. It's very strange for me to do this with a real person, because I have this little nag at the back of my mind that says 'wrong! That might not be how they are' and I just have to ignore that and keep going. And I don't want to do that with a person whose permission I don't have, because I... I... I have a squick about it. Can't explain better than that. It has to be said that when I talk to people in real life, I sit there and I'm fantasing, wondering 'how do they behave when they're not with me? How do those two look in bed? What did he have for breakfast this morning?'

So, for example, a few years ago when I was very into 'The Goon Show', I'd be thinking (and thank the Goddess I hadn't found out about writing RPS, because I'd bet if I'd known about it, the world would now suffer from Milligan/Sellers slash), 'what did they do when they were recording the show? What did they think...?' etc., and I got a little flash of pleasure from reading Harry Secombe's autobiography, and wondering about him and Myra in bed, and the fact that I still know his wife's name scares me a little. And then, because the actors are stronger characters than the characters (storng though they are), I role-played the actors, and I'd wonder even then 'Is it less wrong to pretend you're Peter Sellers, because he's dead, than to pretend you're Spike Milligan, because (at that time) he's still alive?'

It's a strange problem, and not one I know the answer to.