I don't have anything to add to the discussion; I just want to say "smarmy jackhole".

I love the idea of a perfectly straight (not even bi, because it confuses the issue) perfectly happy to be a guy guy dressing in women's clothes because he likes them, and doesn't care what other people think.

Oh, sure!! And I'm sure there ARE those guys out there. But I suspect there'd be more, if it weren't so stigmatized in our society. Whereas women find it much easier, so probably of the group "women who dress in men's clothes", fewer have strong issues, but of the group "men who dress in women's clothes", because it takes more (more desire, more chutzpah, more whatever) to actually go ahead and DO it, I suspect more of them have issues.

My understanding of the "lesbian in a man's body" thing is a man who loves women but doesn't approach and interract with women in a manner consistent with traditional male gender roles, but rather in androgynous or feminine ways

Er. I guess I get that, but...99.9% of the guys I've had say this to me, some of whom have been perfectly cool guys, are WRONG. They are not anythign of the sort, and using as a "I'm not an asshole like most guys" phrase is just not right.

Of course, guys can wear women's undies secretly.

See? Now that seems uncomfortable. Fine. Sure. Wear women's undies, men. Whatever floats your boat.

Well, at least any but little "panties", or make sure you have a pair with extra room/stretch, guys, because anatomy is a funny thing...

Looser fitting items? Clothing is clothing, so go for it if that's what you want to wear.

ETA: Not that there aren't compensations to make for the reverse gender clothing swapping, of course.

On a Homicide episode once, they said one out of ten guys enjoys wearing women's lingerie...so of course they were all counting the number of men in the squad and trying to guess...any cites, or was somebody being funny?

Speaking of gendered clothing. I seem to recall the difference between mens and womens shirts being based on an anachronism. Men's shirts buttoned on one side, women's buttoned on the other. The information source is back from when I was a kid, and someone said I was wearing "a girl's shirt" because it "Buttoned up wrong."

Was/is this still around?

I suppose I could look it up. Hmmm...

On a Homicide episode once, they said one out of ten guys enjoys wearing women's lingerie...so of course they were all counting the number of men in the squad and trying to guess...any cites, or was somebody being funny?

I wonder what definition that statistic comes from -- like, enjoys "wearing women's lingerie on a regular basis (weekly or more often)", versus "has done it before, got a kick out of it, might do it again but might not."

Sigh. Feeling blue because I have to go back to work and I don't want to. Also, I have to take a business trip next week, and I don't want to do that either. Also, it's cold and our thermostat is being stupid. Also, my dad his having gastric bypass surgery tomorrow and didn't even want to talk to me, he had Tivo-related questions for Tom.

Just basic post-holiday blues and blahs.

Carry on with the gender dysmorphia conversation, I'm going back downstairs to watch Farscape. Thanks to Frank, we're finally closing in on the end of Season 1!

{{{Nora}}}

On a related note, while scampering merrily around the sales buying a gazillion pairs of fabulous knickers, I was delighted to find several pairs of "women's boxers". At present, I have quite a number of pairs of men's boxers, but these are even better, for they are decorated with fabulous designs, and fit better. (I'm particularly fond of the cherry-patterned ones from Evans, and of some fabulous purple-on-black-vaguely-70s-pattern ones that were in the sale. They ROCK.

Here endeth the disturbing pants talk.

eta ...although, upon reflection, it may be salient to add that I always wanted to be George, in Enid Blyton's Famous Five books. And I'm a sucker for girl-dresses-as-boy stories, from Twelfth Night to Mulan, to Tipping the Velvet, via a gazillion dodgy Fantasy books.

Ooh, Fay, I quite agree--the girl-versions of the boy-underwear are fun! (The actual boy-underwear I find not nearly so much fun at all, as it tends to be boringly colored and less comfy, which is unsurprising since it's made for people without hips, and with extra dangly bits).

Good question regarding the stats, Steph--I think the 1/10 gay people stat is similarly messed up (but convenient for making people think, eh?)

Daniel, I think shirts aren't quite so gendered regarding side the buttons are on anymore, but growing up I heard the same thing.