I can't really deconstruct Izzard's sexuality based on interviews.

I'm sorry if it seemed I was backing you into that position.

Oh, no, that wasn't it. I just wanted to be clear that, while I was using Izzard as an example of a guy who calls himself a male lesbian and *isn't* using the term to be a smarmy jackhole, there's such a vast continuum of gender identity that unless you know the person in question, it's impossible to suss out where exactly they fall on that continuum.

Though I tend to agree with meara that, in our culture, because it *does* tend to be such an issue for men to wear women's clothing, and since they can get their asses kicked just for doing it, the ones who do cross-dress probably have more going on than just liking the clothes.

Of course, guys can wear women's undies secretly. Any number of them are probably the equivalent of "tomboys" on the gender-comfort continuum.

nods sagely

Pinnochio, in Shrek II, for example. Whereas the Big Bad Wolf would fall more into the actual out-and-proud-Transvestite category.

...what?

I don't have anything to add to the discussion; I just want to say "smarmy jackhole".

I love the idea of a perfectly straight (not even bi, because it confuses the issue) perfectly happy to be a guy guy dressing in women's clothes because he likes them, and doesn't care what other people think.

Oh, sure!! And I'm sure there ARE those guys out there. But I suspect there'd be more, if it weren't so stigmatized in our society. Whereas women find it much easier, so probably of the group "women who dress in men's clothes", fewer have strong issues, but of the group "men who dress in women's clothes", because it takes more (more desire, more chutzpah, more whatever) to actually go ahead and DO it, I suspect more of them have issues.

My understanding of the "lesbian in a man's body" thing is a man who loves women but doesn't approach and interract with women in a manner consistent with traditional male gender roles, but rather in androgynous or feminine ways

Er. I guess I get that, but...99.9% of the guys I've had say this to me, some of whom have been perfectly cool guys, are WRONG. They are not anythign of the sort, and using as a "I'm not an asshole like most guys" phrase is just not right.

Of course, guys can wear women's undies secretly.

See? Now that seems uncomfortable. Fine. Sure. Wear women's undies, men. Whatever floats your boat.

Well, at least any but little "panties", or make sure you have a pair with extra room/stretch, guys, because anatomy is a funny thing...

Looser fitting items? Clothing is clothing, so go for it if that's what you want to wear.

ETA: Not that there aren't compensations to make for the reverse gender clothing swapping, of course.

On a Homicide episode once, they said one out of ten guys enjoys wearing women's lingerie...so of course they were all counting the number of men in the squad and trying to guess...any cites, or was somebody being funny?

Speaking of gendered clothing. I seem to recall the difference between mens and womens shirts being based on an anachronism. Men's shirts buttoned on one side, women's buttoned on the other. The information source is back from when I was a kid, and someone said I was wearing "a girl's shirt" because it "Buttoned up wrong."

Was/is this still around?

I suppose I could look it up. Hmmm...

On a Homicide episode once, they said one out of ten guys enjoys wearing women's lingerie...so of course they were all counting the number of men in the squad and trying to guess...any cites, or was somebody being funny?

I wonder what definition that statistic comes from -- like, enjoys "wearing women's lingerie on a regular basis (weekly or more often)", versus "has done it before, got a kick out of it, might do it again but might not."

Sigh. Feeling blue because I have to go back to work and I don't want to. Also, I have to take a business trip next week, and I don't want to do that either. Also, it's cold and our thermostat is being stupid. Also, my dad his having gastric bypass surgery tomorrow and didn't even want to talk to me, he had Tivo-related questions for Tom.

Just basic post-holiday blues and blahs.

Carry on with the gender dysmorphia conversation, I'm going back downstairs to watch Farscape. Thanks to Frank, we're finally closing in on the end of Season 1!