Cass, can you get on IM for a sec.?
You walk in worlds the others can't begin to imagine.
Drusilla ,'Conversations with Dead People'
Natter 40: The Nice One
Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.
Aims - Nov 30, 2005 2:29:44 pm PST #8190 of 10006
Shit's all sorts of different now.
§ ita § - Nov 30, 2005 2:30:53 pm PST #8191 of 10006
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
The man doesn't.
You think I haven't seen the teleporter discussion?
Aims - Nov 30, 2005 2:34:12 pm PST #8192 of 10006
Shit's all sorts of different now.
Heh heh heh.
Cashmere - Nov 30, 2005 2:43:38 pm PST #8193 of 10006
Now tagless for your comfort.
Counting cards isn't even considered cheating. It's not even illegal. Betting is a two-way contract according to the state of Nevada. If the casino doesn't want to bet with you (and they don't, if you're counting cards) they can ask you to leave for any reason.
The house already has an edge. Counting the cards doesn't change the rules of the game--it only increases your own individual odds of winning. You change your betting strategy.
The casinos can't have you arrested for counting cards. They can just throw you out. People get into trouble when they try to come back in after they've been banned.
DavidS - Nov 30, 2005 2:46:01 pm PST #8194 of 10006
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."
Betting is a two-way contract according to the state of Nevada.
So kicking out card counters is simply the house saying, "I don't want to gamble with you because you're too good." Same as declining an offer to bet on a game of pool with the local shark. But it's not unethical to count cards.
Cashmere - Nov 30, 2005 2:50:12 pm PST #8195 of 10006
Now tagless for your comfort.
So kicking out card counters is simply the house saying, "I don't want to gamble with you because you're too good." Same as declining an offer to bet on a game of pool with the local shark. But it's not unethical to count cards.
Counting cards is a skill. I think if it doesn't break the rules, it's not unethical.
Of course, I know some people that think gambling in general is unethical. Or maybe a better term would be immoral?
quester - Nov 30, 2005 2:53:08 pm PST #8196 of 10006
Danger is my middle name, only I spell it R. u. t. h. - Tina Belcher.
I've got dyscalculia so math and I have a strained relationship...very sad.
OMG! erikaj is me! I never knew there was a word for this. All I knew was that my 2 older and 1 immediately younger sisters were all good at math and I wasn't. Of course the nuns just thought I was lazy because " your sisters can do it. "
This led to a hatred of Math that it didn't deserve. Sorry, Math. It was me, not you.
§ ita § - Nov 30, 2005 2:57:14 pm PST #8197 of 10006
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Are you talking Platonic rules, or house rules, Cashmere? It seems that card-counting is against house rules, which is why they try and stop you from doing it.
Betting is a two-way contract according to the state of Nevada.
That's pretty much been the core of my entire argument. Wanting one side of the contract honoured without honouring the other is what I'm calling unethical.
Cashmere - Nov 30, 2005 3:07:59 pm PST #8198 of 10006
Now tagless for your comfort.
That's pretty much been the core of my entire argument. Wanting one side of the contract honoured without honouring the other is what I'm calling unethical.
It's unethical for the card counters? They still want the two-way contract. They want to risk their own money to try to win the casino's money. The casino wants their money, too. But only on house terms--not the card counter's.
It seems that card-counting is against house rules, which is why they try and stop you from doing it.
The casinos rules are basically set up to keep the house edge as high as possible. That, in and of itself could be considered unethical. They skew the odds in their favor and prevent anyone else from doing the same.
Personally, even if I could count cards, I wouldn't--because the risk of getting thrown out is not worth the little bit of edge it would give me. I choose to play the odds I'm given by the house. If I don't like the odds, I don't have to play.
But I don't necessarily consider it unethical for someone who wants to take that risk because gambling is all about risks.
§ ita § - Nov 30, 2005 3:14:13 pm PST #8199 of 10006
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
The casinos rules are basically set up to keep the house edge as high as possible.
I'm not concerned with motivation. Just that it is against the rules, and as such, is cheating. It's their rules, and it's their contract. The card-counter wants to gamble on their own terms, the casino wants to gamble on theirs. However, the power disparity is such that the house gets to set the rules, not the gambler. That's all I'm saying.
So if you go in and say the house has to live up to their end of the contract and give you money, but you don't have to live up to yours (not card count, not look at other people's cards, whatever)--that's what I'm saying is unethical. Either accept their terms, or reject them all. Not pick and choose to your financial advantage.
The gambler doesn't want the two-way contract. They want a different one. They're just not in a position to draft it.