( continues...) error.

There is an idea of purity though, and by purity, I don't mean virginity. It's a reverence for sexuality, and the idea that it is a gift best enjoyed in a committed, monogamous, lifelong relationship, because that brings intimacy on both the groinal level, and in all other areas of the relationship. It's a sex is good-for-your-relationship, and your-relationship-is-good-for-your-sex-life sort of thing. Depending on where a given Christian falls on the conservative-liberal spectrum, this is going to rule out certain expressions of sexuality as being contrary to the purpose of sex. But most comprehensive religions do speak to all aspects of life, and we're sexual beings--sex is a big part of our lives. There are people on this board (who are not Christians) who dress to meet certain modesty standards, as part of the practice of their faith.

So, yeah, there's a point at which fantasizing might be seen as falling somewhere between counter-productive for your relationship and actually sinful. That said, I spent my entire childhood in a really religiously conservative church and youth group, and attended an evangelical Christian College, and was raised by a mother who attended what wiki would call a fundamentalist Bible School, and have never once been told not to read romances, fantasize or masturbate, for that matter. What I did hear was, and I quote (from former youth group leader who was also a car-nut), "Look, you can have a luxury car, or a junky tricycle. You might be desperate for wheels now, but don't settle for that rusted old tricycle. If you miss out on the Caddy, while you're trying to fix a flat on the tricycle, you'll regret it."

I've driven both. He was right as far as my life is concerned, and I'm glad I didn't miss my chance at the Caddy.

The original article that was linked was, I thought (although I only skimmed it) more along the lines of, "If your fantasy life and real life are out of balance, get with the balancing." I thought they used the dictionary def which states that pornography evokes an emotional response to make a point. I don't even think it was that ridiculous. I read it more as saying, "It's easy to point to skin flicks and say, 'This can be a problem,' but there sure are other things people get too obsessed with, that also cause problems in their lives, including relationship problems."

I know I have seen relationships break down because of unrealistic expectations be they in regards to finances, material comfort, sex, romance, or whatever. When I was a teenager, my mother (probably talking about TV, but maybe something else, I disremember) once said to me, "If something is becoming more important than people, the something is likely a problem, and you have to re-prioritize." I don't think that's wrong, even if I try to put all my religious ideas aside in some box, while I consider it.

See, Cindy, I think that, in those 2 paragraphs, you presented the same viewpoint as the article, but in a much more reasoned, sensible way -- a way that looks at people as more than 2-dimensional.

I think the original article took far too simplistic a view of human sexuality and human emotions w/r/t relationships/sex. After I see a chick flick, I *don't* go home to my cats and ice cream and feel more lonely than ever. And it's simplistic to imply that women do that.

Which *you* don't imply. Go you!

"Look, you can have a luxury car, or a junky tricycle. You might be desperate for wheels now, but don't settle for that rusted old tricycle. If you miss out on the Caddy, while you're trying to fix a flat on the tricycle, you'll regret it."

I've driven both. He was right as far as my life is concerned, and I'm glad I didn't miss my chance at the Caddy.

I love the metaphore!

It's funny, because I was raised in a rather centrist, mainstream Methodist church, and while romances weren't condemned (heck, both my parents read them) masturbation was considered sinful and Something a Good Christian Wouldn't Do, when it was acknowleged to exist at all. I brought up, to my mom, the idea that if I don't know what I like it's kind of unfair to expect my future husband to figure it out. She changed the subject.

But you find misogyny (and misandry, and misanthropy, for that matter) in lots of places.

All too true. I've seen some pagan groups that are so anti-male that it made my flesh creep.

Anyone know of a decent turn-based RPG that I could get?

Pity my old-school ways, my first thought was "What's wrong with Dungeons & Dragons? Get some buddies around the table and have at it." It took two reads to figure out that computer games were what was wanted.

I'm going back to sharpening my pencils and lining up my dice.

I've seen some pagan groups that are so anti-male that it made my flesh creep.

Gosh, yes. "Uh, balance of nature here, folks, Mother Nature approves of the male-female thing. Your Dianic thing is a just a tad off balance."

When I was a teenager, my mother (probably talking about TV, but maybe something else, I disremember) once said to me, "If something is becoming more important than people, the something is likely a problem, and you have to re-prioritize." I don't think that's wrong, even if I try to put all my religious ideas aside in some box, while I consider it.

This is excellent advice. My mother never put it into words as yours did, but I still learned it from her life. And from my dad I learned that I can think in principles, patterns and abstractions, and still live that lesson.

And then there are the pagan groups that take the male-female balance issue so far they fall as deep into homophobia as any far-right Christians you can name.

In conclusion: sometimes people who suck back up their suckiness with misguided religious fervor, which makes them suck even more.

Pity my old-school ways, my first thought was "What's wrong with Dungeons & Dragons? Get some buddies around the table and have at it." It took two reads to figure out that computer games were what was wanted.

Yeah, ditto. I'm afraid I don't do much computer-based RPG. For me D&D is first and foremost a social activity, otherwise known as an Opportunity to Snark; and I go for doing that in person.

When I was a teenager, my mother (probably talking about TV, but maybe something else, I disremember) once said to me, "If something is becoming more important than people, the something is likely a problem, and you have to re-prioritize."

This seems like a good litmus test for a lot of things, from religion, to political agendas, to urban planning.

Anyone know of a decent turn-based RPG that I could get? I'm stuck playing games that are knocking on for 10 years old, and I don't really like the real-time format, because I can't watch telly and play at the same time without pausing the whole game. All I can really find through google are articles about how the format is dying, and that's not really much help.

There are the various Black Isle games. Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate II, Icewind Dale II, and Planescape Torment. Baldur's Gate II is probably the best of the bunch IMO. All are technically real-time, but can be configured to play sufficently like turn based. Plus they are all cheap nowadays.