Judging by how the reactions are falling, it seems the males are tending to sympathize with Veronica and the females with Logan. That's actually really interesting.

I was thinking this, too, victor.

I wasn't around for any of the Spuffy discussion in S6 or thereafter, but did the same thing occur? Did the women sympathize with him, and the men not?

I wasn't around for any of the Spuffy discussion in S6 or thereafter, but did the same thing occur? Did the women sympathize with him, and the men not?

Hmm. I'm not sure. Where I tended to see a lot of Spike sympathy wasn't here, but in the rest of my fannish haunts, and those are mostly female. I did, however, note an alarmingly large number of men I knew in the Goth scene identifying with Spike.

Hearst is a private college

Don't know why I didn't know that. Smallish, liberal arts school?

I sympathize with Logan to some extent but only insomuch that his behavior was understandable and completely in character. Veronica's assumptions about Logan and her insecurity seemed to throw me off a little. I know she's got relationship issues and everything but considering everything she's been through with Logan, I'd expect her to be a little more aware of the reasons behind his actions. And I agree with Steph in WTFing her accepting Dick as a credible source.

Wasn't Kiba a Latin major?

I think so. I wish she was my first roommate. Mine didn't even have the hidden depths of Parker, sadly.

Well, Veronica's years distanced from normal, so she probably doesn't remember what it looks like.

True. I can understand her trying to expand her horizons at college, too. But I'm just considering that Logan is the son of a famous actor--his horizons had most likely been expanded at a young age with travel and experience (some good, some bad). He saw through the phoney actor stuff and hated it. I assume he's jaded enough to make the same assumptions about the artsy/literary types, is all.

That said, I'm totally with Victor on the "getting lucky" line. Had I gotten that voicemail, I'd have activated the tracking chip, too. And wouldn't be ashamed of it.

Where I tended to see a lot of Spike sympathy wasn't here, but in the rest of my fannish haunts, and those are mostly female.

I'm just wondering if some men hate/d the whole idea of women falling for bad boys, and that's where the criticism comes from.

I have a feeling that some of my reaction to Veronica in this episode has to do with how strongly, based on past experience, I can identify with the suspicion thing, and hating it in myself -- and therefore being more harsh with her.

And I agree with Steph in WTFing her accepting Dick as a credible source.

Although like P-C and others have pointed out, she tends to accept as the first suspect in a mystery as the culprit until proven otherwise, so maybe that's in character, too.

Well, I just think that she was behaving worse. . . or her reaction was more extreme. . . not that Logan was being stellar by any means. Maybe Logan was trying to pick a fight and Veronica was trying to avoid the same fight?

And I agree with Steph in WTFing her accepting Dick as a credible source.

Although like P-C and others have pointed out, she tends to accept as the first suspect in a mystery as the culprit until proven otherwise, so maybe that's in character, too.

Yeah, but....he's DICK! He was drinking a beer while walking across campus! He's DICK!

Judging by how the reactions are falling, it seems the males are tending to sympathize with Veronica and the females with Logan. That's actually really interesting.

I've noticed that, but I will fall out of line with my sister Buffistas on this one. I've been nodding in complete agreement with you, victor. They both did bad. Logan seemed to recognize his self-destructive behavior and push it rather than rein it in.

Logan seemed to recognize his self-destructive behavior and push it rather than rein it in.

Indeed. If the "getting lucky" crack wasn't button pushing, it was more cluelessness than I've seen Logan display before.

Yeah, but....he's DICK! He was drinking a beer while walking across campus! He's DICK!

Okay, but here's the thing: he's DICK, yes. But...do we have any reason to believe he's a liar ? An asshole, yes, but the thing about Dick is he's so transparent. What you see is what you get.

If the "getting lucky" crack wasn't button pushing, it was more cluelessness than I've seen Logan display before.

Heh. I didn't catch the actual meaning of the "getting lucky" crack until now.

I knew the 'getting lucky' couldn't mean he was getting lucky with a woman, because otherwise, why would Logan say it to Veronica, so part of me faults Veronica for not realizing Logan wouldn't say that, if he were trying to be sneaky about another girl. She notices stuff nobody else does, so I hold her to a higher standard for little details like that.