I agree, Tep. I think we were supposed to think, along with V, that Logan was doing all sorts of things, and possibly looking to cheat, and then realize he hadn't been. I think we were supposed to realize most of her suspicions were unfounded.

I mean, clearly he was gambling and drinking, but that's nothing we don't know about Logan, and he's not a forty year old with a mortgage and kids, he's college freshman with money to burn. Indicative of character flaws? Hell yeah. Shocking behavior? Hardly.

Are you trying to wound me, woman? I'd say he's Spike and she's Buffy, but I haven't actually give it much thought.

I wasn't saying he was Riley-esque in character--I was just comparing their levels of love. I don't think V feels about Logan like Buffy did about Spike. Do you?

She accepted *Dick's* word about the class being cancelled as gospel. He was walking through campus drinking a beer, he doesn't like her (which she knows), and yet she just took his word for it that class was cancelled and therefore her boyfriend (who's more reliable than Dick -- or, at least, isn't walking through campus with a 40-ouncer in one hand) MUST be lying to her.

Yeah, that was lame. Especially since, what school actually has that rule? And, if they did, 5 minutes? Please. At least she should have questioned it.

Especially since, what school actually has that rule?

I think that every school has students who want to believe it. At my college, the "rule" was 5 minutes for TAs, 10 minutes for adjunct professors (i.e., non-PhDs, non-EdDs, etc.), and 15 minutes for full professors.

Now, no college in the world actually has such a rule on the books, but it keeps getting propagated as a college urban legend.

I don't think he actually skipped class.

It's been brought up repeatedly in every episode. He's skipping class.

The point being, it's terribly obvious Logan's gearing up to trash his own life, and that he's locking her into an alternating pattern of trying to make her jealous and push her away, and then trying to make it right and draw her back.

He knows he's doing it, and he knows it's making her crazy. And it's more than a wee bit abusive.

And it's not like she's a model student, either.

Err, actually, she pretty much is -- finished second in her class in high school, might have been first if she hadn't skipped out to see the Echols trial results. All of this while fighting crime. Don't get much more model than that.

It's been brought up repeatedly in every episode. He's skipping class.

I hadn't noticed it in the first 2 episodes. My bad.

The point being, it's terribly obvious Logan's gearing up to trash his own life

It's not terribly obvious to me.

I don't think V feels about Logan like Buffy did about Spike. Do you?

Not exactly. But I think there's the same dynamic of, "Oh God, I shouldn't like/want him, but I do."

The point being, it's terribly obvious Logan's gearing up to trash his own life, and that he's locking her into an alternating pattern of trying to make her jealous and push her away, and then trying to make it right and draw her back.

He knows he's doing it, and he knows it's making her crazy. And it's more than a wee bit abusive.

I don't see this at all. I think he could be subconsciously pushing her buttons to see how much she'll take (when she'll *punish* him, in other words, or withdraw love), but I don't think he's doing anything on purpose to *hurt* her. I vehemently don't think he's being abusive.

Again, I also think Veronica is a big girl. She can walk away if she wants to, but she doesn't. Yet.

Don't get much more model than that.

I meant in terms of following rules. Which, clearly, she's not big on. Also? Everyone skips class sometimes. Or at least I did.

I think that every school has students who want to believe it.

Not just want, do. I was pretty late once because of subway issues and my students were all sad when I got there, claiming they almost were able to leave. I laughed and laughed. They were very sad to realize that no such "rule" existed. It's the Holy Grail of slackerdom.

They were very sad to realize that no such "rule" existed. It's the Holy Grail of slackerdom.

One of my journalism classes was an evening class. It was taught by a reporter from Cincinnati, and b/c of traffic, sometimes he was late, but never by more than 10 minutes.

One night, though, it hit 15 minutes, and we all left. However, we all decided to go Uptown and drink beer, so we left him a note on the blackboard that said exactly where we'd be, and that he should come up and join us.

Which he did. We bought his beers and wings, and it was all good.

victor, we've been told Logan has skipped some classes. We also know he attends some. He attended whatever class that was that hosted the prison experiment, and volunteered to give up a weekend for it, for the chance to write a shorter term paper. We know he's going to gym. I think we were supposed to believe he skipped the night class, and then realize that we'd been misdirected, and that he was actually at it.

I don't think Logan was actively trying to make Veronica jealous. I think Logan wanted freedom but was too afraid of losing her to say so. That said, I still agree he is self-destructive. But I think last night's episode was about her, and her issues, not so much him and his. If it had been about him and his, we would have seen more of him without Veronica.