Listen, do you hear? -- That is the sound of ultimate delight. My heart made that sound when I saw Batman Begins. The Gothic Miss Manners makes it now.

So, no one should be beating a deceased horse, then?

Ha! I'd ask you to expound, but I'm afraid you would, and then that someone else would try to best you. Anyhow, if we take the most common, metaphorical meaning of that phrase, there'd be no internet.

But Rick Astley cornered the market on butch voices.

Oh, yeah. Finally seeing his face, and having him look completely different than I'd imagined was a huge shocker. I felt something similar, although lesser, when I first saw Mariah Carey on TV.

Wait -- so Rick Astley's voice is macho? I guess I saw him about when I heard him, and, well, his voice is older than his face was, but I never thought of it as that manly.

Bluetooth Star Trek Barbie Handsfree Headset

You can use me to make and receive calls with Bluetooth 1.1 compatible mobile phones. I have no wires. I work within a 10 meter radius of your phone so you can leave your mobile in your pocket or a bag. You turn me on/off, receive calls, make calls and pair me with other devices by pressing in the small of my back.

I am compatible with almost all Bluetooth-enabled mobile phones, including Sony Ericsson, Motorola, Nokia, Phillips, Samsung, Siemens, Cello, LG, NEC, Mitsubishi, and Sharp. You can use voice dialing through me if your phone supports it. So for example you could set your home number up to be called when you say 'Enterprise' and your boss when you say 'Captain Kirk'.

OTOH, let's face it, he also had a very butch appearance compared to -- well, really, just about any member of any hair band.

I still fondly remember a hilarious comedian's riff on Rick Astley about the sound/look dichotomy. The comic took the melody of "Never Gonna Give You Up" and sang:

Haven't reached puberty

Everybody makes fun of me

Deep black voice in the body of Howdy Doody!

My "you look like what?????" revelation goes to this guy. He's more than just blue-eyed soul.

I thought the thing with Rick Astley was not so much the masculine voice/kinda gay look but more that when you heard his voice, you assumed he was a 50 year old black man and then he turned out to be some dorky looking, Opie-fied, white boy.

The Astley song going round and round in my head is "Never gonna give you up" and I've never thought of it as Negrified.

Astley could project. The radio played "Together Forever" about the time of my original post. And it wasn't that his voice was particularly deep, or black. But he projected a commanding voice, which is a quality I'd put in the "butch" category.

His appearance wasn't particularly butch (especially when he let his hair grow around 1990), but I'd call him metrosexual before metrosexual became cool. And "metrosexual" generally ranks ahead of "uses mascara regularly" on the butch scale.

His appearance wasn't particularly butch (especially when he let his hair grow around 1990), but I'd call him metrosexual before metrosexual became cool.

It was smooth. I remember my mom saying he looked kind of Motown.