brenda, I was coming back to admit I'd overreacted. It's all good, and I'm sorry I was a baby about it.

My point was, maintenance is not an issue, if you already care about cleanliness.

Although in my ex-escort friend's experience, the uncut guys who already cared about cleanliness were still less delicious to her than not only the cleanly cut, but the merely averagely hygeinic cut.

She also took into account the difficulty of getting small boys to keep any part of themselves reasonably clean, and the HPV and HIV transmission studies, but she admits that it definitely crossed her mind, when making the decision, that when her son is grown she wants to increase his chances that the women in his life will regard him as a nummy treat.

(eta: She also NEVER EVER wants to hear the details; despite her bawdy past, she's a prude about her baby boy. She wants him to be happy and adored as long as she never knows exactly how.)

brenda, I was coming back to admit I'd overreacted. It's all good, and I'm sorry I was a baby about it.

I can see getting a bit ruffled over it--it's a stereotype that is used a lot and it's easy for a lot of people to make the association between "religious" and "the body's dirty" kinf of folks. It's important to remember that there are plenty of religious parents teaching their children to love and respect their bodies. I know plenty of extremely uptight parents who aren't even religious and can't seem to reconcile themselves to body issues. Since I'm not religious, I don't immediately associate that uptightness with religion. My mother in law still can't say "vagina" and she's not a church goer at all.

JZ, you make a sound argument. Also, I love the use of the word "delicious" as a descriptor.

Also, I really, really, really hate this board's attitude towards people of faith. In short, I think it sucks.

I know it often seems like the group-think is anti-religion, but at least for me I am impressed with people who have not become too cynical to still maintain faith. I do, however, have a huge problem with those who follow an "unexamined" faith and then try to make me do the same. No one on this board falls into that category, to the best of my knowledge.

Anyway, sorry if I've ever said anything that offended you - I respect you quite a bit and wouldn't want to offend you. I've just had a lifetime of poor treatment at the hands of religion.

Not sure I want to keep the circumcision conversation going, but I second what JZ's friend said (although my sample size is smaller than hers). In the interest of gender equality, however, there are quite a few women who need a little stricter cleaning regimen in their privates too.

there are quite a few women who need a little stricter cleaning regimen

This is a perfect reminder for me to get my ass offline and into a shower while the boy's still napping.

Although in my ex-escort friend's experience, the uncut guys who already cared about cleanliness were still less delicious to her than not only the cleanly cut, but the merely averagely hygeinic cut.

Er, OK. I regard my husband as a nummy treat. Then again, not having sex with 300+ people doesn't give me the proper perspective, I guess. But the love I have for him and our sex life trumps most all other considerations... My husband is clean, and just because I don't have a buffet size sampling to compare... I don't know how to finish this thought. But I'm annoyed. And I'm leaving for non-annoyed huff reasons. See y'all on the flip side.

What's an "unexamined" faith?

Just curious....

Although in my ex-escort friend's experience, the uncut guys who already cared about cleanliness were still less delicious to her than not only the cleanly cut, but the merely averagely hygeinic cut.

Small sample size v. total male population? Matter of personal taste? One admits that one isn't likely to hear complaints about that sort of thing, even if one never has.

What's an "unexamined" faith?

One example, I would think, is people who, as adults, have the attitude of "Yeah, I'm [insert religion here], because that's how I was raised, damn it!"

(Which is NOT to say that the religion one is raised in is either bad or good; I mean people who call themselves "Catholic," for instance, b/c they were raised Catholic, versus sitting down and looking at the tenets of that particular faith and deciding if that's something they believe/agree with/can support.)

Maybe I've been spending too much time here... I just read a SciFi Channel ad for their premier of The Forsaken, and I read it as The Foreskin.