I guarantee you that they did not greenlight Serenity based solely on wanting more from Joss in the future. The producers who approved it are judged week to week based on what the films they worked on bring in, and if they spend $30 million to gain the possible future services of a writer/director, they'd be out of there. It's way cheaper--if they want him to do "Wonder Woman"--to say "We'll give you an extra $10 million over your quote to do this script," than it is to greenlight an entire film, and there's less chance of hurting their reps by having him associated with a flop.

Okay, Anthony, you lost me. I have no idea what this "backlash" is that you're speaking of.

I guarantee you that they did not greenlight Serenity based solely on wanting more from Joss in the future.

As I said above, I think the DVD sales were a factor. There were probably other factors, too, that none of us are aware of. But I do think the driving force - the reason they even took the meeting and ran the numbers and said, "hey, at worst, we can probably break even on this" - was Joss.

To sum up before dropping it: I will never believe, short of Scott Stuber picking up the phone and giving me a ring, that a $4,000 ad in a trade magazine had anything to do with Universal's decision.

But the success of the dvd sales had nothing to do with greenlighting the movie either?

Because it seems to me that in the whole running of numbers and keeping of their jobs by producers, that if there is X fanbase buying a dvd set of a cancelled tv show and being "vocal" by whatever means (postcards, contributing to a nice ad, spending actual money to buy the dvds) that X counts.

I prefer to think that, since eventually they want our money either through commercials on tv or dvds or whathaveyou, at some point what I am willing to actually give them money for matters.

And when enough people want to spend money the way I want to, stuff I like will be around. Until then, I don't watch their shows and I don't buy their stuff and I don't see their movies.

I don't know. Really, Cindy can lie to me all she wants. It's a better story.

edit: And if this discussion has calmed down, no need to start it again.

If anything, the $4,000 ad in a trade magazine probably made FBC and 20th realise they would easy make their cash back via licensing rights - at the time the advert was placed, they were standing to loose a bit from Firefly.

DVD sales *WERE* a chief part in the economic scaling of SERENITY. And, you know, those DVDs didn't initially magically fall off the shelves - that was a fan thing at the time. Universal were in a situation where they could balance out a budget of how many fans they thought were out there and how many DVDs they think they can sell of Serenity. If it does poorly, I'd imagine over time it'll still make it's money back easy. If it does well, they will get a huge amount of profit margin - more than on, for example, WAR OF THE WORLDS - and have a franchise which will require less effort to advertise next time around as it will have a bigger built in audience and common knowledge.

It's a win win movie for Universal, and not really a hard sell. Whilst some fans may be convinced they saved the show and made the movie, it doesn't really pan out like that -- but they are certainly cash cows. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, either. Oh, and Joss Whedon as a named film director doesn't stick well, but he does have a fair amount of film and industry experience which helps swing it more.

I wasn't invoking it for its thread-ending effects but for its Partyman-spitting effects.

This supports my theory that you may, in fact, be Evil.

Okay, Anthony, you lost me. I have no idea what this "backlash" is that you're speaking of.

I'm glad that wasn't just me, Kristen.

Anthony, I'm echoing Kristen's confusion. What backlash?

I'd be startled to learn that enough people have heard of Joss to have a non-trivial backlash.

It emanates mostly from AICN. I know that place has a rep. but that's the primary non Whedon supported site I go to regularly. I think it's more than people who just want to be contrary. People there really seem to resent that he has the following that he does and can't wait for Serenity to fail.

You haven't made it until some asshole talkbacker on AICN resents you. I think there were even a couple of guys slamming Chris Reeve the day he died. That's not a backlash, it's validation.

But the success of the dvd sales had nothing to do with greenlighting the movie either?

I've said, twice now, "I think the DVD sales were a factor." DVD sales are separate from the fan campaigning that, no, I don't really think had a hand in the movie.

ETA: I should clarify and say "had a hand in the movie getting made." God knows, Universal has certainly discovered the power of fandom and is using that to try and promote the movie.