To clarify my post--I agree with Allyson that the fan's "noise" did not save Firefly. I do think having devoted fans who buy stuff is a thing which makes Joss more attractive to execs--and probably Our Man Tim as well. In that way, having vocal and organized fans is a positive thing. BF is working on trying to get financing for a movie with a director who has won an Oscar, and his name is not enough to get ONE DOLLAR in financing, even though everyone agrees he is very talented and they love his work. Brittany Murphy brings more to the table than this guy, and she isn't even a b-list star.

And there's a difference between a "fandom" show and a regular little-watched show, no? I mean, I'm sure Two and a Half Men has more viewer than Firefly had, but how many of those people would buy DVDs?

Well, not when the real people complain, surely?

I don't want to be part of someone's wank. It's a really fucked up feeling.

Okay, I get it. There is no direct link between the Variety ad and related campaign and the DVD sales or movie. In a completely unrelated but illustrative example, if you were Iraq* and the movie was Al Queda, you would not want us to invade you because despite being a country that fostered it's own kind of terror and in some tenuous way had a connection to supporting fundamentalism and worldwide terror, invading you would have absolutely no effect on Al Queda, their funding, or their specific arm of terrorism.

The same way you don't want to be thanked for the DVDs and movies. Even though your efforts in fandom contributed to an environment that made the planned DVD release more economically viable, you didn't cause the DVDs to get released and weren't involved in any campaign to that effect. So me saying you guys did it, is like me saying go take out Saddam because we need payback for 9/11.

But despite that, Saddam was a bad, bad man. And you guys still kicked ass for the FF fandom.

• This post is not intended to invoke Godwin's law.

This post is not intended to invoke Godwin's law.

Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler (Nazi! Nazi!)

Polter-Cow just made me spit all over my keyboard.

there is also a widely-recognized codicil that any intentional invocation of Godwin's law for its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful

I wasn't invoking it for its thread-ending effects but for its Partyman-spitting effects.

I'm not sure I follow. So Universal is thinking of Joss as a brand name and that slapping his name on projects might make them more marketable? To get him on board they throw $30 mil at him to make Serenity. If Serenity bombs or doesn't meet expectations doesn't it hurt that brand name though? Joss could easily be labelled a "TV guy." Not only that but isn't Wonder Woman a WB project? Beyond Serenity box office how's Joss attached to Universal?

Personally I think it's more bottom line oriented. Like maybe they looked at those DVD sales and figured they could get 1/3(or what ever % they were comfortable with) of those people to a movie and set the budget at that. If the DVDs came into play in this way at all then I 'd say the fans had a pretty big part in the process.

But clearly, CLEARLY, neither I, nor the F:IA campaign, had anything to do with the release of the DVDs, or the DVD sales. Which is what I am saying. Clearly.