She just... she just did the math.

Kaylee ,'Objects In Space'


Fan Fiction II: Great story! Where's the sequel?

This thread is for fanfic recs, links, and discussion, but not for actual posting of fanfic.


Fay - Sep 12, 2009 6:29:17 am PDT #6254 of 10434
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

I think some of it's down to the medium too: a character who's written as being basically a Mary Sue can be rendered a hell of a lot more believable and human by a good actor. They can sell someone as being more than the sum of their (too-good-to-be-true) parts. But in (fan)fiction, all you've got is the unamelliorated prose.

For that matter, I think that a written character could easily enough have a whole load of checklist points for MarySue without actually being a MarySue, because there ARE amazingly, implausibly gifted & attractive people (like, well, ita springs to mind, actually. And her mum, iirc) and a good writer can make their characters real and three dimensional even if they're remarkably gifted & heroic.

I wouldn't call Tempe or Charlie Eppes Mary Sues because I think the actors do a shitload of legwork in making them plausible (if exceptional) people. But I agree that certainly Brennan's writing has been contradictory, and they overplay the "I don't know what that means" card A LOT.


brenda m - Sep 12, 2009 6:51:17 am PDT #6255 of 10434
If you're going through hell/keep on going/don't slow down/keep your fear from showing/you might be gone/'fore the devil even knows you're there

There's something about the realism of the world they're set in too. I mean, if you get right down to it there's very little that's plausible about the Bones 'verse, from the characters to the science to the crimes. So in that context, you have people who are skewed a little (okay a lot) more to the remarkable than you could get away with in, say, HLoTS.

(In Bones, I'd say Angela actually comes closest to the old authorial insertion type Mary Sue, as opposed to the simply way too good for plausibility.)


§ ita § - Sep 12, 2009 8:08:06 am PDT #6256 of 10434
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I'd say Angela actually comes closest to the old authorial insertion type Mary Sue

Her eyes are almost violet, it's true. It's hard to talk authorial insertion as a factor when the main character is based on the author, I guess.

If I'm going to write a new team member for the Jeffersonian, or Leverage or a friendly rival for Charlie Eppes, I just have to be damned good, it boils down to. Because it doesn't matter if I managed to avoid making it look like I want to be this character--the fact that I have to make them so good at everything the main character(s) is/are good at, plus likeable (and attractive, for the former two shows, I think) I'm on thin ice already.


Fay - Sep 12, 2009 4:11:32 pm PDT #6257 of 10434
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

plus likeable

Ah, but I think that's part of it - a Mary Sue character is liked, rather than likeable. imho. We're TOLD that they are fabulous and universally beloved blah blah blah idealism cakes, rather than being made to like them ourselves. If the author can make them genuinely likeable, then we're probably looking at someone who's more three dimensional than a Mary Sue.

I mean, Dawn probably ought to be a Mary Sue, and Fred definitely should be - but if they (actor and writers, or writer) flesh them out and make them real and make us give a damn, then they aren't a Mary Sue. Mary Sues are flat. It's the difference between Buffy and a Buffybot, kinda, in terms of characterisation.


Fay - Sep 13, 2009 7:18:00 am PDT #6258 of 10434
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

Er - so I may have just started to commit GCS RPF. here.


sumi - Sep 13, 2009 9:35:07 am PDT #6259 of 10434
Art Crawl!!!

Excellent! (Running off to read now.)


Consuela - Sep 13, 2009 9:41:48 am PDT #6260 of 10434
We are Buffistas. This isn't our first apocalypse. -- Pix

We're TOLD that they are fabulous and universally beloved blah blah blah idealism cakes, rather than being made to like them ourselves.

Yeah, this.

Although my interpretation of Mary Sue is: someone who warps the narrative around them. They're like a black hole of charisma and achievement, and not only do they have a ton of accomplishments and are universally beloved, but they also steal the thunder of everyone else in the story. In fact, the story is written in order to make sure that they get to be the star.

This is somewhat acceptable in a single-protagonist story, but unacceptable in an ensemble environment. And even in a single-person focused story, it gets overwhelming. See, e.g., Jerusalem by Laurie King, which is where I stopped reading the Mary Russell Holmes novels.


Atropa - Sep 13, 2009 10:06:33 am PDT #6261 of 10434
The artist formerly associated with cupcakes.

beams

Fay is my favorite.


Fay - Sep 16, 2009 3:37:57 am PDT #6262 of 10434
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

Did you guys all read this already? I just stumbled upon it myself: Torchwood/Addams Family Crossover by Basingstoke. Very good, I thought.


Fay - Sep 18, 2009 11:57:33 pm PDT #6263 of 10434
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

More of the Gothic Charm School story