Afraid I generally fall on the skeeved side for RPF, though that may be my only line in the sand regarding fanfic. But I figure if shallot's stories can't interest me in reading it, no one can—I followed her into SGA crack and Wincest without blinking an eye.

Eh, not so much? I mean, I read a fair amount of CW RPF, and a: some of it is, in fact, gen; b: much of it is, in fact, not porn (though a lot of it is romance).

I'm not making any assumptions about what constitutes CW RPF, or why people enjoy it; like Morgana, I'm talking about the metric shitload of J2 fic that one encounters in the course of being a fan of SPN fic, and trying to understand why people seem to be under the impression that J2 belongs in SPN fandom, rather than being a fandom of its own.

I don't disagree that the RPS fandom for a given show is arguably different in tone and direction from their fictional counterparts, but I strongly disagree that there isn't an actual fandom surrounding RPF and its various incarnations.

???

...yeah, um, I'm pretty positive I didn't say that.

I was specifically addressing the way that SPN and SPN RPS are interwoven, and, sorry, when a HUGE number of the prompts on the SPN kink_meme explicitly say they want to read about Sam (or Jared) doing X, Y and Z to Dean (or Jensen), I cannot help thinking that a lot of people are playing that game of their-names-are-pasted-on-yay porn.

If you're treating SPN RPS as a fandom in its own right, with its own canon and context and characterisation etc etc (as you certainly should be, and as I assume most RPS writers do), then Sam Winchester and Jared Padalecki really are not interchangeable. I haven't seen any other fandom where the RPS fic was so deeply interwoven with fanfic for the show.

Am I saying that all SPN RPS is doing that? Of course not. But there are a LOT of fen who think liking J2 and liking Sam/Dean is pretty much the same thing, and whose fic requests (in this and previous memes) reflect that.

I don't know how to look at that thread of SPN fandom without assuming it's their-names-are-pastede-on-yay.

eta

And notwithstanding the fact that it does do my head in, I'm not rabidly anti-RPF. (I mean, fuck, I've cracked and written it, so, you know, that ship has sailed.) It just boggles my mind that SPN is so thoroughly mixed up with the RPS for the show, because I haven't seen that before.

I'm still really not very comfortable with reading about the actors, though, and all the more so when it includes their friends and family (and, Jesus, dogs - SO MUCH bestiality in the SPN kink_meme, along with a number of kinks I had to look up, and others that I didn't have to look up, but was still left going o_O about - but, you know, I'm sure lots of people felt that way about the tentacleporn, whereas I was all "Ha! Hell yes!", for that is the horrifying beauty of the kink_meme). I think RPS is very interesting, with its use of liminal space between reality and fiction, but it still does do my head in.

However, I find most all that sense of residual discomfort gets kicked out the window once you're talking crack AU. Which is how come I ended up writing crossdressing regency dubcon J2 fic, and spent yesterday laughing my ass off over Leonidaslion's fabulous torrid Warrior/Slave Historical AU J2 noncon story yesterday morning. 'Cause at that point, it feels very much less like you're being a creepy stalker, and much more like you're reading original fic with the actors in costume on the front cover. imho. ymmv.

I'm not making any assumptions about what constitutes CW RPF, or why people enjoy it; like Morgana, I'm talking about the metric shitload of J2 fic that one encounters in the course of being a fan of SPN fic, and trying to understand why people seem to be under the impression that J2 belongs in SPN fandom, rather than being a fandom of its own.

Probably, frankly, the fact that they're fraternal twins. Unlike other fandoms where there's a strong RPF section, the RPF in SPN started in parallel with the FPF, if not a few minutes before it. In S1, from what SA would know being in it at the time, and what I dimly recall from other friends who were in it, when it was small, it made logistical sense for it to be grouped in one newsletter. The volume hadn't exploded yet, there was a lot of crossover in readers/writers, so why split it?

But there are a LOT of fen who think liking J2 and liking Sam/Dean is pretty much the same thing, and whose fic requests (in this and previous memes) reflect that.

Or you have a lot of fen who like either/both, and who aren't picky about which pairing gets written, which is similar, but not the same, as thinking of them as interchangeable. Maybe I'm quibbling with semantics here (probably am), but it seems less pasting, more maximizing the chances of someone writing the prompt. Does that make sense outside of my head? Like, if you're into walrus costume bdsm, and you like both Sam/Dean and JSquared, if you want to see someone dressing as a walrus and using whips and chains, you double your chances of seeing it if you're cool with either, though you'd expect the story itself to be different depending on which one the prompt taker chose to do.

Like, if you're into walrus costume bdsm, and you like both Sam/Dean and JSquared, if you want to see someone dressing as a walrus and using whips and chains, you double your chances of seeing it if you're cool with either, though you'd expect the story itself to be different depending on which one the prompt taker chose to do.

This is both logical and brain-rupturingly hilarious.

(And I would be supremely unsurprised to see somebody has requested EXACTLY THAT.)

Who'd wear the tusks? That's what I want to know.

Chad

...

Huh. Dude, I was so clearly playing skippy mcskipperson on the flist yesterday, 'cause I totally missed that.

But does he get to, you know, get nasty with 'em?

I don't know, I haven't read more than a few paragraphs.

like Morgana, I'm talking about the metric shitload of J2 fic that one encounters in the course of being a fan of SPN fic, and trying to understand why people seem to be under the impression that J2 belongs in SPN fandom, rather than being a fandom of its own.

Yes. This. I remain convinced that the SPN and J2 fics need to separated. Out of curiosity I just looked at the summaries for the last 10 Big Bangs posted:

1) Jensen shares his totally awesome loft in Los Angeles with two male strippers, Chad and Jared, and spends his days high out of his mind when he's not fucking guys for money. Everything is perfect until his pimp hooks him up with Tom, a diplomat's son who smuggles drugs out of Colombia for fun... 2) Jared is a college freshman, trying to make enough money working part time at Starbucks. Jared is in a relationship with Sandy when he is introduced to gay-for-pay porn by a house mate and, desperate for money, decides to try it. His first partner is college senior Jensen who has been paying his tuition by doing porn...3) It's been two years since Supernatural finished, and both Jared and Jensen's careers and their realtionship are riding high. But a tragedy in Jared's family destroy's their world. Jared can't deal with the pain, so he absorbs himself in a life of drugs and alcohol. Jensen's at his wits end, and one night, Jared does something that could destroy their relationship for good... 4) Life as a marine mammal trainer at SeaWorld San Antonio is going pretty well for Jared Padalecki. When an injured dolphin arrives at the park and soon becomes the top attraction under Jared's care and guidance, no one, least of all his trainer, expects the dolphin to turn out to be a prince of the ocean named Jensen... 5) There are ten rules about interoffice dating and Jared Padalecki pretty much fails at all of them. It happens like this: Jared works in a cubicle. Jensen is the oblivious engineer.

6) Jensen Ackles has gone through many of life's transitions, from Detective, To Sidekick, back to an average Jo Detective again. But when someone begins to Copy Cat a serial killer that was put behind bars eight years earlier he'll have to take up the mask of a vigilante once again... 7) Jensen Ackles was the first journalist in fifty years to be jailed for refusing to name his source. A year later he's out of jail and has to deal with a murder case, a new intern called Jared... 8) It is a truth universally acknowledged that a Jared in possession of his heterosexuality will immediately switch teams upon enrollment in college and first contact with Jensen Ackles. 9) Jensen Ackles' only love, as long as he can remember, has been archaeology. He's notorious for quick, efficient digs and no one outside of his team of diggers and lab rats really knows much about him. Then he meets Jared Padalecki, a grad student... 10) Jared is starting his new life, leaving behind a cheating fiancée and an un-supportive family. Does his new home have more to offer than unique neighbors and a bowling team?...

One of these at least mentions Supernatural. But these various AU's and their characters have no characters, plot points, or themes in common with Supernatural. I fail to see why the J2 fiction shouldn't be a separate entity from the SPN fics.

Life as a marine mammal trainer at SeaWorld San Antonio is going pretty well for Jared Padalecki. When an injured dolphin arrives at the park and soon becomes the top attraction under Jared's care and guidance, no one, least of all his trainer, expects the dolphin to turn out to be a prince of the ocean named Jensen...

...

...

...Oh, God bless fandom.