I started watching Supernatural when it first aired, and some of the first fic that came out of the fandom was Wincest.

And, as we've talked about elsewhere, I can totally see (from reading the Yuletide 2005 stuff and looking at where canon was at that point, especially with what had and had not been revealed about Dean in particular--Sammy's not my sticking point with it not working for me a good 99% of the time) where that came from, while also *not* being able to really buy it for myself because of where canon went, and how I consumed the first 24 episodes (in a week). Though, you know, obviously from recent responses to the show, milage varies there.

but that doesn't mean our cake preferences are or should be a point of contention

This is true. And I was very happy for you when I saw that one of the best bakers out there was using an ingredient you love.

So I'm sure, Nutty, that I'm missing some things that you're talking about, but they've never interested me because I had this other line

Doesn't interest me either, but -- I observe trends, and happy-fun is very trendy. (I probably wouldn't read the unhappy-unfun either, but, I'm at least more likely to respect it, for all the reasons you cite.)

As Consuela notes, it's a wanky topic; one of the reasons none of the discussion happening here is happening on LJ is because of the wank-potential in a vacuum. (Whereas, we are all grownups here, or anyway we fake it magnificently.)

I made the crack about Levi-Strauss to emphasize that, while we are all talking about incest as a taboo, like vinyl hip boots or like saying a swear word in front of your grandma, it's kind of the Mother Of All Taboos in historical western culture, and thus deserves to be discussed on a different level from your garden-variety line-crossage. Maybe the line stilll should be crossed, for whatever narrative reason, but, it definitely deserves a heightened level of attention when it is.

You know, I am sure I would read wing fic I liked, as I have read almost every other semi-popular thing and liked it (RPS, incest, mpreg). T

Coming late to the conversation, but loving seeing both sides of it so well stated. I kind of feel my cake preferences* are so particular to me that I just kind of have to go my own way and watch everyone else go theirs, but I love seeing the thought processes behind the choices.

• I can't read Wincest, of any sort (even Wingfic) because one day I got stuck in traffic and started thinking very bad thoughts about the family dynamics of incest and of the Winchesters, and how they intersect and what this would say about John and now I can't get past it, even if it weren't for the whole "isn't their world already fucked up enough" factor. I can and do however read a very narrowly defined subset of SPN RPS, which I always thought squicked and/or bored me, and mostly still does, except here, for some reason.

Oh, right, Lee, we had that talk at Sparky's, didn't we? About how the fact of sibling incest might tie back to father-son incest and that wasn't anywhere we wanted to go.

Yeah, I'm even less "my beautiful cake" when it comes to John and either one of the boys. John's got enough problems, that just isn't one I want to lay on him. And I know someone could write that story and it could be well-told and psychologically complex and I just--no. I can't continue to like or respect John with those thoughts in my head.

Yep.

Yep squared.

My cake does not include any possibility of John-incest. Nope.

I have been thinking more on why it doesn't work for me, and it comes down to (ultimately), the only in character (to me) way in which I can see Dean going along with it, given his personality and his relationship with Sam, would involve so much emotional trauma to the character that I couldn't read it without going fetal, because it's a boundary I can't see him crossing without a lot of pushing in that direction, and one that once crossed, I can't see him recovering from well, if at all.

Or, longer story shorter, the Dean in my reading of the text is pretty much broken in the opposite way of the way that works for me. He's sort of the anti-River.

t OT

OMG, just read the Truckpreg story.

Am now broken from laughter. I love crack!fic.

Speaking of, pokes Plei

I could see Wincest growing out from the SPN backstory because the brothers have such an isolated relationship. Their links to community and family (aside from one another) are pretty nonexistent, and they're both so broken and dependent. I can buy stories that show that sort of metastasizing into a sexual relationship. Ending up as 80+ year olds in rocking chairs in Ye Olde Hunters Home holding hands, not so much. Then again, I don't see either of them seeing 80 no matter who they have sex with.

But this sort of runs aground for me when I watch the show and fail to see a sexual spark. Their on-screen relationship reads brotherly to me. I felt there was occasionally a vibe between Simon and River, and for that matter the Lex/Lionel sparkage was there if I squinted. But I just don't see it with the Winchesters.

This doesn't stop me from reading it if an author I like goes there. But I don't watch the show and get too OTPish about the boys. Dean/Impala, maybe.