And see, I wouldn't have objections (I hesitate to even call them moral objections) to all of the incest and RPF if I thought that the readers and writers had put some thought into it, like you guys have, and like I'm sure Des and shalott have.

OK, if this was "Lone Star" territory where the boys didn't grow up together, maybe. But Sam and Dean, more than anything, are *siblings* through and through

Yes! Exactly! And, well, Simon/River or Connor/Anyone (except Wesley, because I found to my shock that I couldn't go there)--there's a separation, enough of one and early enough for me to see the relationships redefined in such a way.

(And I should add: Lone Star is one of my favorite movies, too.)

But Sam and Dean's period of separation happened later, and their upbringing, while strange and isolated, wasn't Flowers in the Attic isolated, so I just can't buy it.

Yeah, the Lone Star analogy is a good one, which is one reason why Ces' SGA incest story didn't really bother me. Particularly when you're talking about a homosexual relationship, where there's no worry about children, having the partners raised apart and possibly not even knowing their relationship, makes it a lot more acceptable to me.

Kellifer's "Agnatus" does that, and while I don't actually buy the relationship, at least it doesn't squick me the way a lot of the other Wincesty ones do.

Dean doesn't love Sam because he's beautiful, and Sam doesn't love Dean because he's hot.

That's not how 95% of the Wincest I read plays out at all. *shrug* I know what you guys are saying, but it's not like this is a surprising fandom trend. It's not even the majority of the fic that's being produced. And I'm not going to defend incest fic, because I don't think that's the point. But it's frustrating to get boxed into a fandom group I didn't sign up for just because I read Wincest.

Connor/Anyone (except Wesley, because I found to my shock that I couldn't go there)

Heh. That's to *my* surprise. I think the emotional undercurrent there might be interesting, even though I personally have never been able to see Conor as a sexual entity. Connor/Angel though? A World of No.

I usually have no problem going "lalala! Not my thing!" and letting my eyes slide past whatever bugs me, but I just can't seem to do it with this particular issue. Bah.

That's not how 95% of the Wincest I read plays out at all.

Sorry, SA. I read the beginning of a story a few weeks ago that totally was doing that, and I couldn't hit "back" fast enough.

I'm sorry you feel like you're in a box, but I don't know that I defined a box other than "the people who like to read Wincest". Which, you know, that's your beautiful cake, and I can't say you shouldn't read it. Or write it, or whatever.

I just... eh. This is such a wanky topic, and I really don't want to get into a whole discussion about the cumulative impact on fandom from the growing acceptability of incest.

Eh, I just appreciate being able to not my beautiful cake with you guys (apologies to SA and the rest of you for whom it is yummy), because so many of my friends are into that flavor and I hate that they're cooking things I don't eat.

Wincest. It's the new cilantro.

(And I feel I should clarify: I like being able to pout and harumph in a relatively non-wanky space, because I'd never say jack on my usual space, on account of the wanky factor.)

Wincest. It's the new cilantro.

Oh, perfect.

t loves on Plei

You... don't like cilantro? Freak.