The others... is there some kind of lj community for carfic or SPN has a newsletter community right?

spnnewsletter

The difference, for me, is seeing a fandom where the majority (or at least a substantial proportion) of the fic is incest.

Didn't someone break it down, and it was something like 40%?

I have no moral objections, I just don't really dig it. Even if it makes me sad seeing all this beautiful cake that I have no real desire to eat.

Oh, yeah: Dean does Nanowrimo: [link]

Which continues to amuse me. I *heart* crack.

Didn't someone break it down, and it was something like 40%?

I was told Maygra did a breakdown of what's on the newsletter, and it's like 25% of what's posted (counting individual stories, not words), but it constitutes the large majority of the slash in the fandom. It is, however, the OTP.

I really need to find that post, I only had it reported to me in a chat.

It's funny, I don't want to be the one whining, "I'm being oppressed by the incesters!" because lame, much? Especially if it's not the majority of what's being written. But it's a highly-visible (and somewhat controversial) minority and thus has an impact disproportionate to its volume.

I get why people like it, but I've tried to read a few of them, and they just -- that's not how I see that relationship, and almost all of them twist it into something that doesn't work for me. Dean doesn't love Sam because he's beautiful, and Sam doesn't love Dean because he's hot. They're brothers and most of the time they don't even see each other, because that's what happens.

The only wincesty story I've read that convinces me it could go that way is Maygra and Eighth-Horizon's "Salvation" AU, which has a really long complicated buildup to it, and even then mostly keeps the wincest on the metaphorical side.

Yeah, I'm just getting into Heroes, and I'm a little depressed that I can't seem to get away from the happy fun incest.

Yeah. Some people on my Flist are into it (good writers whose other fic I love) and just looking at the header kind of makes me blanch. Same in SPN. I mean, I can get behind a story that explores how this is something the boys will turn to under extremes of circumstances (sort of like how I was able to buy Simon/River), but the default reaction seems to be wheeee! Hot boysex! Which... no. And in shalott's squee post about SPN yesterday, she mentioned how she could see Wincest as a pairing with a viable happy ending, which made me go... "what?" OK, if this was "Lone Star" territory where the boys didn't grow up together, maybe. But Sam and Dean, more than anything, are *siblings* through and through, and I just can't see how the writers, no matter how hot the boys are, could look past that. Even with the demons and the magic, the universe of SPN is recognizably ours, unlike something like, say, Harry Potter.

Even if it makes me sad seeing all this beautiful cake that I have no real desire to eat.

Yeah, me too. I am trying very hard not to harsh the squee of others. I don't wanna be the buzzkill saying, "Oh, hey, I love you guys, but your fixation on the incest is making my eyes bleed."

I know it's not fandom's responsibility to cater to me. I'm just not used to flinching this much.

I'm just not used to flinching this much.

Me neither.

Beautiful cake! Beautiful cake! Sigh.

Oh, and Vonnie, word on Shalott's post. I adore her writing, but I guess it was a bit too much to hope she'd write some gen or het... Sigh.

Ah well, happily enough there's a ton of great gen in the fandom to read.

They're brothers and most of the time they don't even see each other, because that's what happens.

Yeah, totally my take.

And see, I wouldn't have objections (I hesitate to even call them moral objections) to all of the incest and RPF if I thought that the readers and writers had put some thought into it, like you guys have, and like I'm sure Des and shalott have.

OK, if this was "Lone Star" territory where the boys didn't grow up together, maybe. But Sam and Dean, more than anything, are *siblings* through and through

Yes! Exactly! And, well, Simon/River or Connor/Anyone (except Wesley, because I found to my shock that I couldn't go there)--there's a separation, enough of one and early enough for me to see the relationships redefined in such a way.

(And I should add: Lone Star is one of my favorite movies, too.)

But Sam and Dean's period of separation happened later, and their upbringing, while strange and isolated, wasn't Flowers in the Attic isolated, so I just can't buy it.

Yeah, the Lone Star analogy is a good one, which is one reason why Ces' SGA incest story didn't really bother me. Particularly when you're talking about a homosexual relationship, where there's no worry about children, having the partners raised apart and possibly not even knowing their relationship, makes it a lot more acceptable to me.

Kellifer's "Agnatus" does that, and while I don't actually buy the relationship, at least it doesn't squick me the way a lot of the other Wincesty ones do.