You all gonna be here when I wake up?

Mal ,'Out Of Gas'


What Happens in Natter 35 Stays in Natter 35  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Jesse - Jun 02, 2005 12:30:59 pm PDT #8807 of 10001
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

Yes, it is a theory of depression that says if you have repeated experiences of being unable to escape negative events then you will become passive and will no longer even try to escape them. The symptoms of depression are taken to result from this giving-up.

I totally do this at work, when I'm working for compulsive re-writers. Why even bother trying when I know that no matter how much I work on the thing, that it will be completely re-written?


Atropa - Jun 02, 2005 12:32:06 pm PDT #8808 of 10001
The artist formerly associated with cupcakes.

My dad's response to questions like this is to give completely absurd directions. Really detailed, absurd instructions. Bonus if he can make the questioner do something stupid. "Well, first you need to stick your finger in your ear, palm parallel to the floor. Tilting sideways, slowly turn in a circle, mooing like a hoarse cow...."

sarameg's dad is my dad, apparently.


Kat - Jun 02, 2005 12:33:15 pm PDT #8809 of 10001
"I keep to a strict diet of ill-advised enthusiasm and heartfelt regret." Leigh Bardugo

Okay, I don't mind questions like, "Do you have any tape?" or "Where is the extra tape?"

I teach a lesson every year on how to ask for help. I tell them saying, "I don't get it" isn't asking for help.


Rick - Jun 02, 2005 12:37:38 pm PDT #8810 of 10001

Was it supposed to be a grand unifying theory of depression, or describing one sort, Rick?

It started off as a grand unifying theory. Then it turned out not to predict all symptoms of depression very well, and not to describe all kinds of depressed people very well, and in the way of most scientific theories there was a retrenchment and the theorists suggested that it applied to only a small subset of cases. Most people in the field (including me) now see learned helplessness as a particular symptom of depression, not a cause of depression. But the pendulum could swing back.


§ ita § - Jun 02, 2005 12:38:32 pm PDT #8811 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

learned helplessness as a particular symptom of depression, not a cause of depression

Is it used outside of depression? The people I know who do it seem very happy.


tommyrot - Jun 02, 2005 12:39:06 pm PDT #8812 of 10001
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.

Most people in the field (including me) now see learned helplessness as a particular symptom of depression, not a cause of depression. But the pendulum could swing back.

::keeps an eye on pendulum in case it's necessary to duck::


brenda m - Jun 02, 2005 12:40:23 pm PDT #8813 of 10001
If you're going through hell/keep on going/don't slow down/keep your fear from showing/you might be gone/'fore the devil even knows you're there

I think -- does it cover the scenario where if something isn't done right the first time, the subject becomes passive aggressively unable to ever do it right, regardless of the complexity?

Yes, it is a theory of depression that says if you have repeated experiences of being unable to escape negative events then you will become passive and will no longer even try to escape them.

I see those as pretty separate things, though - the first example of "learned helplessness" often has (IME) a fair portion of "and then someone else will do it instead." The second - I'd call that learned apathy, I guess.


Connie Neil - Jun 02, 2005 12:41:18 pm PDT #8814 of 10001
brillig

To me, learned helplessness is what annoying females do so that they can simper and let some big strong man take care of them.


amych - Jun 02, 2005 12:42:05 pm PDT #8815 of 10001
Now let us crush something soft and watch it fountain blood. That is a girlish thing to want to do, yes?

All kinds of ~ma, Stephanie. Peaberry should do what's right and emerge in time to meet her daddy.


§ ita § - Jun 02, 2005 12:44:01 pm PDT #8816 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

learned helplessness is what annoying females do so that they can simper and let some big strong man take care of them

My (unschooled) interpretation of the thing I'm now calling learned helplessness is less calculated than your average simpering chick, and is more like my parents' abject refusal to remember certain things about computers, or even to remember where the instructions are, or the teenager who just can't remember how much soap goes in with the laundry ... in theory, it does work out more easily for them, since there's an expert around who takes it (often impatiently) off their hands, but it's very "Well, she's so good at it!" more than a verbalised "Don't want to!" or "Shouldn't have to!"