See, I don't think that Ben's a worse guy for having ended up how he is and having been in Hitler Youth.

I got this mixed up with the conversation in Movies for a sec and my mind went, "WHOA! What???"

Actually, I've yet to see anything suggesting that the other candidates would be better about the Catholic church's doctrine on condoms.

There were a few papabile that were open to revisiting the Church's stance on birth control and the ordination of women. Schoenborn of Austria was one, I believe.

I don't mark folk down for that, or up for the converse. I consider them independently.

I think that's entirely fair.

I think the Hitler Youth membership is the Ratzigner papacy equivalent of Jeff Gannon's gay porn career. It's that juicy little extra tidbit of backstory that makes everyone's eyes roll that much harder, but it's not really the problem.

This is what leads me to believe that Ratzinger is a compromise. The conservatives get their rottweiler, and the liberals get someone who probably won't be in office for long, thereby allowing them to drum up support for the next conclave. Politicking for Pope Benedict XVI's replacement has already begun, albeit behind closed doors in a subdued fashion.

Interesting. Makes sense. Although you'd have to check out the Ratzinger family to check life expectancy....

There were a few papabile that were open to revisiting the Church's stance on birth control and the ordination of women. Schoenborn of Austria was one, I believe.

Hmmm. Is he young (for a papabile)? Maybe in 10 years or whatever he'll have a shot.

See, I don't think that Ben's a worse guy for having ended up how he is and having been in Hitler Youth. He's bad enough on his own. In theory he's done more for Jews than I have.

I don't think it makes him worse either. He just doesn't get a "He had to! He felt really bad about it!" from me. I'm saying the things he's done for Jewish people is not enough to make up for the bad stuff he espouses now.

I stopped being surprised that close exposure to one injustice (like, say, racism) doesn't cure people of honestly believing something I consider a similar injustice (like, say, homophobia). I don't mark folk down for that, or up for the converse. I consider them independently.

I'm not sure that I'm suprised by it, but certainly disappointed. I don't think I mark people up or down, or maybe I do- I do consider them less thoughtful (in the larger sense).

so I'm stuck in exile with preachers in bad suits, Tom DeLay, and a room full of Thomas Kinkade paintings and a buffet table full of tragic casseroles you would find on Iron Chef: Battle Condensed Cream of Mushroom Soup.

Oh, this is effin' brilliant.

I have a question for the Catholics -- can a person use something that has the side effect of birth control if that is not its purpose -- i.e. estrogen can be prescribed for a variety of problems, but would have the effect of preventing pregnancy. Is that allowed?

He just doesn't get a "He had to! He felt really bad about it!" from me.

I don't think anyone (here) insisted he felt really bad about it. But the had to ... well, mandatory things while you're a teen? I'll go with he pretty much had to.

I have a question for the Catholics -- can a person use something that has the side effect of birth control if that is not its purpose -- i.e. estrogen can be prescribed for a variety of problems, but would have the effect of preventing pregnancy. Is that allowed?

I know that in Catholic hospitals that's what doctors have to do -- they can't prescribe birth control, but they can give the Pill for "irregular periods" or some such.