A man walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything.

Wash ,'The Message'


Buffista Movies 4: Straight to Video  

A place to talk about movies--old and new, good and bad, high art and high cheese. It's the place to place your kittens on the award winners, gossip about upcoming fims and discuss DVD releases and extras. Spoiler policy: White font all plot-related discussion until a movie's been in wide release two weeks, and keep the major HSQ in white font until two weeks after the video/DVD release.


Hayden - Jul 15, 2005 10:53:27 am PDT #5684 of 10002
aka "The artist formerly known as Corwood Industries."

I won't talk about LiT here again, so as not to worry anyone. See, I like it quite a bit.

See, this I totally disagree with. It does seem to be a popular interpretation, but I don't get it. I mean, ra-ra loyalty and all that, but they don't decide to slaughter the entire town out of loyalty to Angel. It's just what they do, because they're a bunch of bastards. I don't see it so much as Pike being noble and doing The Right Thing. It is important for him, personally, because he's always abandoning people, but it's just as much ennui. They've got nowhere to go and nothing to do. Time's up. If they hadn't killed Angel, I don't think it would have changed a thing.

I think our disagreement may be a little more subtle. When I said he's doing the right thing, I meant for him personally. I don't think it's so much about loyalty to Angel (although that's definitely why Mapache dies) and nobility and all that garbage as it is about Pike accepting that yes, he has nowhere to go (as Dutch says earlier in the film to his notion that they'll do this last job and back off, "Back off to where?") and time has passed him by, but by god, if he's going to kill a bunch of people, rather than doing it in another botched robbery plan or rather than killing his best friend, who he wronged, he's going to do it right there in Agua Verde because a) he's paid a lot of lip service to the notion of the Bunch staying together (which is, as you point out, quite important to him to actually do what he says for once) and b) he's driven by his disgust at the forces of progress, which, in that place, are represented by the Germans and the uniforms. I think that's why Peckinpah goes out of his way to show that it's a child who shoots him, because, as illustrated by the earlier scene in which Mapache stands the bombing by Pancho Villa in order to use the telegraph, the children hero-worship Mapache. Pike has to die because he's a relic, and he knows it, and for him, the exact right thing to do in that situation is to struggle in vain against the future, ostensibly to uphold the values that he's been paying lip-service to when it suits his purpose. He has to prove to himself that being a bastard to the world is alright as long as you're not one to your compadres. I mean, he's wrong, but that's how I read that fucking incredible look on his face in those couple of seconds between shooting Mapache and shooting the German.

Also, I should point out that Pike originally thinks of Mapache as just another outlaw like the Bunch, but Dutch points out that they don't hang people. Mapache is a completely different sort of bastard, and I think that Pike figures that out when Mapache won't sell Angel back to them.

Edit - On re-read, I'm sorry for the convoluted sentences. If I could make heads or tails of them, I'd rewrite this for clarity.


§ ita § - Jul 15, 2005 10:54:16 am PDT #5685 of 10002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Most of my reaction to LiT was "Why should I care again?" And there was a bit of "Ew." as the judgemental side of me came out. And I fully appreciate that if I did care about the characters, I wouldn't be standing out here judging them so hard. But I didn't, not at all.


Tom Scola - Jul 15, 2005 10:54:44 am PDT #5686 of 10002
Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere. And even the smallest act of insurrection pushes our lines forward.

Charlie is doing pretty well with the critics, but it seems to hinge on whether or not the reviewer liked Depp's performance.

Time Out New York's critic (whose review isn't online), hated the movie, and was basically claiming that Depp's performance was too similar to Michael Jackson for him to stomach.


Jessica - Jul 15, 2005 10:58:38 am PDT #5687 of 10002
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

Substitute Big Fish for LiT, and this is me.

Oh, Big Fish is on my list, too.

I'm sure I'll end up seeing Charlie at some point, but I just can't make myself interested in it. The trailers make it look unwatchably bad.


erikaj - Jul 15, 2005 10:59:12 am PDT #5688 of 10002
Always Anti-fascist!

OMG, Corwood, Pike is almost like Frank Sobotka...clinging to his dream and his past on the docks way past its day...trying to do the wrong things for the right reasons... Ok, that's enough boring Wirehead epiphany.


Atropa - Jul 15, 2005 10:59:21 am PDT #5689 of 10002
The artist formerly associated with cupcakes.

and was basically claiming that Depp's performance was too similar to Michael Jackson for him to stomach.

I've heard that theory, but I think reviewers spouting that are trying just a bit too much to be hip, meta, and to tie things into current(ish) events.

I'm seeing the movie tonight, of course. The reviews I've read have me all giddy with anticipation.


Matt the Bruins fan - Jul 15, 2005 10:59:37 am PDT #5690 of 10002
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

I avoided both Lost in Translation and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind for fear of being unable to see their lead actors as characters rather than themselves. Both have an impressive collection of tics and a tendency to mug for the camera that can throw me right out of a movie if everything else isn't handled just right.

In other news, I went with my mom to see Dark Water last night. Despite the suspense, mental health issues, and child endangerment storyline it was so much more comfortable a viewing experience than seeing the nudist episode of Queer Eye together Tuesday night.


Gris - Jul 15, 2005 10:59:42 am PDT #5691 of 10002
Hey. New board.

The trailers make it look unwatchably bad.

I'll let you know my take either tonight or tomorrow. Assuming reading the next HP book doesn't distract me too thoroughly.


Atropa - Jul 15, 2005 11:00:59 am PDT #5692 of 10002
The artist formerly associated with cupcakes.

The trailers make it look unwatchably bad.

I'll let you know what I think later. Or, I'll make Pete come and post his take on it, since he is not the devoted Tim Burton fiend I am.


Gris - Jul 15, 2005 11:01:46 am PDT #5693 of 10002
Hey. New board.

Bill Murray was old, depressed Bill Murray in Lost in Translation, but since his character WAS him, it was okay.

Jim Carrey was very un-Jim-Carrey like throughout the vast, vast majority of Eternal Sunshine. There were a couple of scenes where he became wacky, but they were perfect for those moments. Hard to explain without being spoilery, though.