...whereas I saw The Godfather as a beautiful potboiler. It's pulp all dolled up, and I dig it on that level, but it makes me crazy that so many people don't see it as pulp. I mean, hello! It is gangsters being melodramatically tragic! REal gangster watched that movie and started aping it, because they thought their lives needed more "artistic" drama.

I think this means that visuals -- the artistry -- cannot distract me away from story the way they can a lot of people.

I know...Paulie Walnuts' horn plays the theme song, too.

PC you'll probably like The Godfather

I hope so! And I'm supposed to like The Godfather II and loathe The Godfather III.

I think that one problem in film-viewing today is that it's hard to put yourself into the context of the film in the time it was made. That is to say, a lot of movies called "great" are so because they were radical for the time in which they were made, and without that context they're merely good -- or even not-so-good -- movies.

Very, very true.

I saw Citizen Kane when I was 16, and didn't care about it.

That's about how old I was when I saw it, and what I loved about it was the narrative style. I hadn't seen a lot of classics until my film class senior year of high school, so I didn't know what to expect. I didn't expect, I don't think, something so non-linear. Piecing together a man's life through the tales of the most important figures in it. All the revolutionary technical aspects of the filmmaking were just icing, but it had a story that grabbed me.

I think this means that visuals -- the artistry -- cannot distract me away from story the way they can a lot of people.

So it's entirely possible that we agree on this, which is, you know, weird. There are so many movies where people rave about how bloody gorgeous it is (e.g. The Thin Red Line, Hero, Lost in Translation etc.), but I couldn't get into the story, so whatever. If you're not going to tell me a fucking story, at least give me a ride, like Run Lola Run. I don't think I have patience for pretty pictures if there isn't enough meat behind them. Kinetic action, however, will carry me through.

This is all interesting, because I think story, as such, is the least important part of a film to me. I want it to be pretty, and I want it to have characters. Often, characters and story are entertwined, part and parcel of the same thing, but that's not always true.

This is why I adore Lost in Translation while many don't, because I love the characters. Nothing happens in the movie. But it's pretty, and there are characters I can get into. That's what I need.

A lot of people think Godfather 2 is actually the superior film...I've not actually seen three for myself figuring, if it sucks, that's a sad way to spend two + hours.(But I shouldn't skip any mafia movies and I fucking survived "Casino", no?) I think that the Godfather makes some significant points about family bonds, but I will admit to not finding them Significant with a capital s...I'm just saying I don't think it is without story.

A lot of people think Godfather 2 is actually the superior film.

Because it is! As Nutty notes, Godfather 1 is gorgeous pulp. Godfather 2 is as close to Shakespeare as American film gets.

I grew into Grease.

After I grew out of it, I mean. First time round it was the most marvellous film ever (I was 9, and there was mooning). Second time round it was childish and silly (I was 16, and there was mooning). By the re-release it was a movie with fun bits wrapped around dumb bits, and I've liked it about evenly since then.

I love GF2 deeply, but I'm not sure if it is because of my thing about, you know The Thing. Crime and criminality in general interest me more than the average, you know. But it has so much to say about America, and starting a new life, and... ETA: ita is me, in re Grease. I remember thinking I was very cool for getting the smutty bits, which is a pleasure I still enjoy, come to think of it.

This is why I adore Lost in Translation while many don't, because I love the characters. Nothing happens in the movie. But it's pretty, and there are characters I can get into. That's what I need.

I felt like there was a great movie struggling to get out. I loved the scene where they talked in bed. I loved "That was the worst lunch ever." There were a lot of nice moments, but they were few and far between. You make an interesting point about character and story not always intertwining, but I think it's hard to learn about characters unless they're in some semblance of a story. Even if it's just a narrator telling us about them, that counts as a story. It's storytelling.

Oh, and since I was just thinking about it yesterday, another movie that I didn't see the love for: Y Tu Mamá También. (Also, I hated 21 Grams .)

(grumbling) But I see your point about LiT. Not that I disliked it.