You're not gonna jokey-rhyme your way out of this one.

Willow ,'Sleeper'


Buffy and Angel 1: BUFFYNANGLE4EVA!!!!!1!

Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.


Polter-Cow - Oct 27, 2012 4:59:24 pm PDT #9675 of 10458
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

I think he did skip the opening credits because he did post that he was somehow 100% unspoiled for Spike (despite Netflix's using the season five DVD cover with Spike) and his reaction on video will be priceless when we see it.


DavidS - Oct 27, 2012 5:17:43 pm PDT #9676 of 10458
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

The second season close in quality to Firelfy? Serious?

I'll stand by that assessment. The back end of Dollhouse's run had a run of five episodes or so which were absolutely riveting. It doesn't hold together as well as Firefly, but its peaks were comparable. From the last three or four episodes of S1 through the end of S2 is very strong.


§ ita § - Oct 27, 2012 5:26:48 pm PDT #9677 of 10458
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

As delightful as the Boyd reveal was, it was so random and not plausible, the fact that so much started to hang off it means it's fruit of the poisoned tree for me. While it was fun, and gaspy ooh-ahh! fun to boot...he took a few dubious shortcuts to get where he's going, and Eliza Dushku still hasn't learnt to act.

Even though she was surrounded by some amazing talent, the story hinged on her being special and amazing, and she absolutely *never* sold me on anything other than "looks great in that dress" on that show. Well, okay, maybe she looked good in pants too. I'll give her that.

So, tree poisoned, weak keystone in the arch.


DavidS - Oct 27, 2012 5:33:42 pm PDT #9678 of 10458
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

As delightful as the Boyd reveal was, it was so random and not plausible

Yeah, I didn't like that. That's where I have a narrative objection. But Alan Tudyk's run as Alpha (starting S1) is fantastic. And I think they worked around ED's limitations and brought it back to her strengths (she doesn't have wide range, but she's got deep charisma). Franz was awesome. Olivia was awesome. Enver was awesome. Harry was awesome. Amy was great. AD, Summer - excellent.


Polter-Cow - Oct 27, 2012 5:39:47 pm PDT #9679 of 10458
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

I'm mostly with you, Hec, though I have some of the same criticisms as ita re: Boyd (it was never planned, and it showed) and Eliza Dushku's performance. I agree that near the end of season one, the show became actually good, and then season two was really good, especially the last several episodes where they just went for broke. And of course everyone else's performances were awesome. I'd throw Dichen in there too.


DavidS - Oct 27, 2012 5:43:40 pm PDT #9680 of 10458
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

One of the big plus points for me getting Netflix streaming was rewatching Dollhouse. I don't need to own S1, but having the eps there and being able to watch from "Briar Rose" on is great. I had really missed a lot of the characters.


Frankenbuddha - Oct 27, 2012 7:58:57 pm PDT #9681 of 10458
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

The unaired pilot is must watching/having on the season 1 set, though. I'm still nail-spitting mad that Fox made Joss contort his concept so much, because that pilot did in an episode what took most of season 1 to do. Ptuiii! We shall never speak of it again.

I did think the Boyd came out of frelling nowhere, though, like the rest of you.


DavidS - Oct 27, 2012 8:20:34 pm PDT #9682 of 10458
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I did think the Boyd came out of frelling nowhere, though, like the rest of you.

One of the all-time asspulls in Whedon history.

Up there with:

Summers blood. (whatev)
Xander setting off the OMWF. (Seriously? After he's had love spells go awry and spoke Latin in front of the books?)
Everything that happened for two seasons on Angel was set-up by Jasmine. (they just lost me there.)

Those are the three least supported examples of plot-whiplash. Those were not properly setup so they just felt random.


Polter-Cow - Oct 27, 2012 8:24:18 pm PDT #9683 of 10458
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

Xander setting off the OMWF. (Seriously? After he's had love spells go awry and spoke Latin in front of the books?)

My headcanon is that he's covering for Ethan Rayne, who threatened to expose some embarrassing secret.


billytea - Oct 27, 2012 10:57:01 pm PDT #9684 of 10458
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

Hey, did Mark revisit his Buffy S7 predictions?