You're right, Hec. But right now, we're talking Xander and Willow and I think Xander has offended against Buffy more than Willow. Giles we'll save for another time. I gots beef with Giles. Specially season 7.
Buffy: How was school today? Dawn: The usual. A big square building filled with boredom and despair.
Buffy: Just how I remember it.
'The Killer In Me'
Buffy and Angel 1: BUFFYNANGLE4EVA!!!!!1!
Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.
SailAweigh - May 18, 2005 5:10:55 pm PDT #878 of 10458
Nana korobi, ya oki. (Fall down seven times, stand up eight.) ~Yuzuru Hanyu/Japanese proverb
P.M. Marc - May 18, 2005 5:13:53 pm PDT #879 of 10458
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear
Giles' almost got Buffy and her Mom killed by his direct actions. I don't see Xander's Lie as being nearly as bad or unambiguous. It was a grey area act of omission. Giles and Willow committed much worse betrayals as acts of comission, but fans wear their Favorite Goggles and that's how they view the show.
Well, Giles was also doing His Job, in theory for an organized Greater Good, which makes something of a difference to me. Plus, the fallout of his actions brought us Wesley, so it's all good.
As for the lie, sure, it wasn't a physical act, but it wasn't an act of omission. He lied, flat out. Made something up. Told an untruth. Committed a falsehood. An act of omission would have been not saying that Willow said anything.
Gandalfe - May 18, 2005 7:34:03 pm PDT #880 of 10458
The generation that could change the world is still looking for its car keys.
You're right, Hec. But right now, we're talking Xander and Willow and I think Xander has offended against Buffy more than Willow.
Assuming, of course, that trying to destroy the world is inoffensive.
Katie M - May 18, 2005 7:57:49 pm PDT #881 of 10458
I was charmed (albeit somewhat perplexed) by the fannish sensibility of many of the music choices -- it's like the director was trying to vid Canada. --loligo on the Olympic Opening Ceremonies
Yeah, I gotta say, Willow wins that competition hands down, between the trying to destroy the world and the memory-wiping.
§ ita § - May 18, 2005 8:11:33 pm PDT #882 of 10458
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
One can make a distinction of against Buffy, though. Xander did something to Buffy. Willow? Batshit trying to kill everyone. Sure, she tried to lay the smackdown on Buff, but it wasn't as simply personal as what Xander did.
DebetEsse - May 18, 2005 8:15:51 pm PDT #883 of 10458
Woe to the fucking wicked.
Yeah, but Willow directly endangered Dawn's life (which, I think, is a bigger deal to Buffy than her own life at that point) during the Magic is Crack storyline.
Fred Pete - May 19, 2005 2:47:56 am PDT #884 of 10458
Ann, that's a ferret.
One can make a distinction of against Buffy, though.
Raising Buffy from the dead, even with the best of (conscious) intentions, messed Buffy up pretty seriously. The memory wipe of TR was also aimed at Buffy -- again, with supposedly good intentions (though here I'd say Willow was thinking at least in part of easing Willow's conscience) -- though with unpleasant results.
Topic!Cindy - May 19, 2005 2:50:56 am PDT #885 of 10458
What is even happening?
One can make a distinction of against Buffy, though. Xander did something to Buffy. Willow? Batshit trying to kill everyone. Sure, she tried to lay the smackdown on Buff, but it wasn't as simply personal as what Xander did.Oh, I don't know. She went after Dawn, specifically. Also? She assumed Buffy would be in Hell, and ripped her out of heaven. Granted, everyone who knew played along with that one, but Willow wasn't hearing any of the suggestions that they not, and largely, her hand-wave-iness was out of vanity. She was afraid and wanted Buffy back, but she also really wanted to have dead-raising on her CV.
I love the smell of Xpost in the morning.
Frankenbuddha - May 19, 2005 2:57:39 am PDT #886 of 10458
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"
I secretly hoped he would guest star in one of the last Angel episodes and Illyria would fall for him.
Heh, that old demon magnet. Yeah, that would have been fun.
Volans - May 19, 2005 4:12:02 am PDT #887 of 10458
move out and draw fire
Huh. Reading this discussion just made me realize that at some point I started getting the idea that there was no more friendship or importance or anything between Xander and Buffy, that Xander was sort of this guy who just hung around and Buffy didn't really notice because he'd always been there. I can't say when I started getting that feeling exactly, but I'm sure it was about the time he started being a butt-monkey again.
(goes back to lurking in this thread)