I think that the Cleveland Hellmouth is mentioned in The Wish. . . and he's seen that,right?

Robo-Dad cheapened the moment because actual Dad suffered nothing.

Actually, I think it made it worse.

I'm extrapolating my own feelings here, but it's like this. There's someone you're supposed to love, and you kinda do love, but you also hate him, with real good reason. You're not the kind of person who would kill someone just because you hate them. But suddenly! The person you hate/love is about to do something really heinous and the only way you can stop him is to kill him. You're ALLOWED to kill him now! So you do; you don't even hesitate, and it feels really good, and also you realize you're an awful person for feeling good about that.

So you have the pleasure of hurting the person you hate, and the guilt for killing the person you're supposed to love.

BUT WAIT. He's not really dead! It wasn't even really him! He's alive, and what's more, he has NO IDEA that you killed him!

Well fuck. The bastard won again.

So now you still have all the guilty emotional reality of having killed him, because you DID, without the pleasure of actually having put a bullet in the bastard or purging your hate or ridding yourself of him, and he doesn't even know that you really truly would kill him; he hasn't even seen the depth of your hatred. You really are useless; you can't even kill your father right.

That's why the take-back for Wesley killing his dad was so bad. Wesley ended up with all the bad feelings of having done it, with none of the good.

They never actually explained who built Robo-Father and sent him after Wesley, did they? How exactly would one go about building a robotic duplicate of someone programmed well enough that his own son couldn't tell the difference without the cooperation of the person duplicated?

Zenkitty: Yes. That. Exactly.

sumi: I think Giles mentions "a great deal of demonic activity" in The Wish; I don't THINK he actually uses the word Hellmouth until Chosen.

Didn't alter-Buffy mention the Cleveland Hellmouth in _The Wish_?

eta: nope, not here. Found the script online and the bit i was thinking of was actually Giles: GILES (into phone/mid talk) ...yes, I understand, but it's imperative that I see her. Here. Well, when will you...? You are her watcher, I would think she'd at least check in to... Yes. I'm aware there is a great deal of demonic activity in Cleveland. It happens, you know, that Sunnydale is on a Hellmouth... it is so! (gives up) Just give her the message, if you ever see her again.

I'm pretty sure Cleveland was mentioned, but not that it was on a Hellmouth.

Okay, just looked up the transcript and it wasn't mentioned that Cleveland was on a Hellmouth. This is what was said:

Giles: Yes, I understand, but it's imperative that I see her. Here. (listens) Well... when will you? (listens) Yeah, well, you are her Watcher. I'd expect her to at least check in to... (listens) Yes, I'm aware that there's a great deal of demonic activity in Cleveland. (listens) It... Well, it happens, you know, that, that Sunnydale is on a Hellmouth. (listens) It, it is so! (listens) Well... Just... Just give her the message, if you ever see her again. (hangs up)

LOL, synchronized researching!

Aha! Well, people can at least joke about there being a great deal of demonic activity in Cleveland when he's there.

Even if they refer to Cleveland having a Hellmouth, he may think it's amphigory.

Right. I need to put on clothes-for-being-social-in and hit the road if I'm going to get to Detroit for the Mark meetup.

Any questions people want me to ask?