Spike ,'Get It Done'
Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.
Are you saying that stabbing a vampire kills them, or that sending to another dimension does, or that it's the combination?
Going to Hell equals "dead" for whatever that means in the Jossiverse. He was expired on this plane, he was an ex-Angel, he was bleedin' demised.
Was Buffy dead in "Anne"?
Was Connor dead while he was growing up then?
Was Buffy dead in "Anne"?
Walking through an interdimensional portal is not the same as having your physical body mortally wounded in our dimension.
Angel's physical body was not mortally wounded though. Wounded, yes; mortally, no.
I'm with Plei about Fred's death. With added sobbing because she was forgetting everyone and everything important to her and the memories of her bunny were stripped away from her. t yes, I still have issues about her damn toy bunny. Shut up, this tag is not closing.
I guess if he was "vampire dead" he would've dusted. I'm trying to remember the details - they just needed Angel's blood to seal the portal? So, like a bad hangnail would've worked instead of a coupe de grace?
Dag, Joss' world-building always did suck, especially when he tried to turn a plot-point on it. He only cares about the emotional resonance of the action, not whether it makes sense. (Hence...so many seasons of Angel which don't make much sense to me with the Jasmine and the Glayvin and Skip and the higher plane and the powers that be.)
I don't see how there are now two deads for a vampire. You stab them in the stomach, you might as well as have given them a paper cut. You jump through a portal, you jump through a portal.
they just needed Angel's blood to seal the portal? So, like a bad hangnail would've worked instead of a coupe de grace?
As I recall, it was the stabbination with the magic sword that stopped the invasion of demon hordes (or whatever, I'm a little fuzzy on which Apocalypse is which) and incidentally sucked Angel to Hell. I'm not sure if the idea of a portal was part of it at that stage.
I don't see how there are now two deads for a vampire.
I'm pretty sure in Joss' mind the only reason that moment is important narratively is because Buffy killed Angel.
Hmmm, I hadn't realized that so many people read that scene as Buffy giving Angel a slight shove through an interdimensional doorway on the tip of her sword.
In fairness to that point of view, I've always felt that Joss bringing Angel back with the barest bit of handwavium was his bullshittiest move. (In a tight race on BtVS with the Miracle Snow of Amends, Summers Blood and Xander called up a Broadway apocalypse.) So maybe Joss didn't think Angel was Mostly Dead?
But if I buy that Buffy didn't kill Angel then that would lower my estimation of the story considerably. Sort of to the level of "Wesley was willing to shoot his Dad to death. But it was a robot." Hence a takeback, weakass storytelling. I really don't give a shit that Buffy was willing to kill Angel. Xander and Giles were willing to kill Angel but they didn't.