Sees dead horse. Rides same.

You beat a dead horse, hon. You ride a, um, a tired horse. Until it is dead.

I do enjoy that the Xander Lie keeps coming up. It's proof that it's dramatically real, you know? That it's not something everybody comes down on the same side about, that it's legitimately gray. I dig that.

Which is to say, Xander has many faults, but also many strengths; saying, "Kick his ass" was a failure to relate possibly-important data, but it was a prime example of Xander being supportive in a way he knows how to do. Frightened guy with a rock, blurty, occasionally cruel, avoidant, but also, all the cavalry available, and kind, and helpful, and once in a blue moon, wise. He is human.

Young!Xander always wanted to be the protector. Just look at his relationship with Willow. He tried to protect Buffy by not giving her (in his mind) false hope that they could get Angel back. I think if she had thought there was a real chance, it would have changed the outcome of the fight. Her desire to survive eventually crushed her last reservations about offing her tru wuv.

That it also fueled his own anger/desire for revenge, as bon bon said, is a convenient by-product.

eta: Nutty hits it on the head. He's human. Totally allowed to screw up.

You beat a dead horse, hon. You ride a, um, a tired horse. Until it is dead.

I am a rebel.

This kind of thing happens all the time-- it just so happens that what he believes is the "right" thing to do (keeping Buffy on game) directly coincides with the result he would prefer (punishing Angel). It's not so much either/or (selfish or just) as people tend to conform their view of the "right" thing to do with the best result for themselves.

Except that Xander teamed up with Angel when the situation required it. ("Lie to Me" for example.) Xander may dislike the "stench" of Angel (from Xander's view), but he would hold his nose and work with Angel if he thought it was necessary or right. Iffn Xander thought that Angel could be resouled and be a help to Buffy and/or the Scooby Gang, then maybe he would have given Buffy a different message. But he saw that time was short and did not believe that Angel was coming back as an ally. So he opted to do what was necessary to rev Buffy up for the kill.

You beat a dead horse, hon. You ride a, um, a tired horse. Until it is dead.

And then you beat it in a fit of pique? You could be on top of the dead horse when you're trying to make it move.

You could be on top of the dead horse when you're trying to make it move.

t such very bad pictures in my head

I think that sitting on top of a dead horse is not the same as riding it. There is a key semantic difference. Otherwise every time I sat in a Barcalounger, I would be riding the Naugahyde Express. Which, only on alternate Sundays and with safety gear.

Also, imagine trying to beat a horse while you are sitting on it. Most people I know would probably hurt themselves more than they hurt the horse (which, anyway, being dead, doesn't know the difference).

imagine trying to beat a horse while you are sitting on it. Most people I know would probably hurt themselves more than they hurt the horse

Would these same people hurt themselves beating a live horse?

Isn't the expression based on the premise that you don't know the horse is dead, and you're still trying to ride it or have it pull something?

Xander always had B's back, yo

He hated Angel, and Angelus had killed people he cared about. That dead-horse lie was a totally selfish move on Xander's part.

I know it's almost sacrilige (sp?) to simlify it this way, so I apologize. Willow was more important for Buffy because of the magicks. Xander, on the other hand, was more important to Buffy especially in regards to Angel. Xander was always the first person to call Buffy on how her view and emotion towards Angel or Angelus got completely skewed vs. rational reasoning. It helped Buffy really think about what she was doing, even just a little, than doing the first thing her impulses told her to do. So, yeah, she was a little obsessive about re-souling Angel and the end of Season 2, but it was another way to kill 2 birds with one stone - get Angel back & stop Acathla.

Would these same people hurt themselves beating a live horse?

I think the idea is that you get off the horse before beating it. Live or dead. Better angle for the beating, you know?

Isn't the expression based on the premise that you don't know the horse is dead, and you're still trying to ride it or have it pull something?

I think the expression is based on knowing the horse is dead and beating it anyway. It's not "trying to make something work in the absence of understanding that the thing is irrevocably broken"; it's "knowing the thing is broken/argument is ended/decision is made and being unable to give up on it."

I think that sitting on top of a dead horse is not the same as riding it.

Oh dear, we're venturing dangerously close to equine necrophilia snuff porn here folks.

Why am I not surprised?