Would these same people hurt themselves beating a live horse?

I think the idea is that you get off the horse before beating it. Live or dead. Better angle for the beating, you know?

Isn't the expression based on the premise that you don't know the horse is dead, and you're still trying to ride it or have it pull something?

I think the expression is based on knowing the horse is dead and beating it anyway. It's not "trying to make something work in the absence of understanding that the thing is irrevocably broken"; it's "knowing the thing is broken/argument is ended/decision is made and being unable to give up on it."

I think that sitting on top of a dead horse is not the same as riding it.

Oh dear, we're venturing dangerously close to equine necrophilia snuff porn here folks.

Why am I not surprised?

I think the idea is that you get off the horse before beating it. Live or dead. Better angle for the beating, you know?

Your friends may need to upgrade their riding crops. It's really easy to beat a horse while you're riding it.

It's not "trying to make something work in the absence of understanding that the thing is irrevocably broken"; it's "knowing the thing is broken/argument is ended/decision is made and being unable to give up on it."

I'd never looked at it that way. I figured we were being all meta and ironic, but that most people beating dead horses have some sort of denial/ignorance in place that makes them insist it's actually a viable enterprise, despite all the evidence in the world.

When I picture someone beating a dead horse, the horse is hooked up to a cart. I don't know if this is just my brain or if there was a story to go with the cliche or what.

Sometimes, there is a stream just beyond the horse, which the person doing the beating will not be able to lead the horse to, nor make it drink from.

I don't think I'm gonna be able to decide the which was more important to Buffy question.

I think it depends on whether you're saying, "Not to beat a dead horse here, but..." or whether you have to be told that's what you're doing.

And for some reason, I always interpreted "beat" as in "to death." As in you'd already beaten the horse to death, but just kept wailing on it anyway.

Hmmmm. I think Xander was more important *to* Buffy, because he was completely normal. No demon blood, no witchy power, No arcane knowledge, no nothing. A normal, regular guy who could live the life she was supposed to want, but who also chose to fight the darkness. Sort of like how Buffy was a symbol to Angel - I think Xander was that symbol to Buffy, if she had bothered to think in symbols at all (not saying she was dumb, just saying girl had an uber-straightforward way of thinking).

Well, Jessica, you don't just randomly awlk up to a horse-corpse and start beating it. I imagine there's a reason the horse is dead.

Although, ita's mention of riding crops makes me wonder -- what are we beating this horse with that it's dead? I mean, a riding crop is like a flyswatter -- not really painful, and really not able to cause damage. And if you're beating your horse with a sledgehammer, I really hope you got off it first, because I think you'd hit yourself with the hammer.

ita's mention of riding crops makes me wonder -- what are we beating this horse with that it's dead?

Your vision isn't like mine -- my impression is that you work the horse to death, but keep beating it in order to (unsuccessfully, naturally) get it to keep going.

And if you're beating your horse with a sledgehammer, I really hope you got off it first, because I think you'd hit yourself with the hammer.

Is there a cheetah? Does it have a knife?

Good question, Perkins. I'd say Willow because she was the closer friend (the crush always being a small barrier between X and B), although Xander and Willow are probably the closest friendship.

Well, Jessica, you don't just randomly awlk up to a horse-corpse and start beating it. I imagine there's a reason the horse is dead.

Maybe you don't....

No, that's a good point. Obviously I'd never given it much logical thought before.

And I pick Xander. I don't know why.