Sir? I'd like you to take the helm, please. I need this man to tear all my clothes off.

Zoe ,'Serenity'


Buffy and Angel 1: BUFFYNANGLE4EVA!!!!!1!

Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.


DavidS - Jan 13, 2012 7:29:18 am PST #8327 of 10459
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Sometimes the talk was just "Team Edward!!1!111!" but sometimes it went deeper, and was really interesting.

I'm curious now - what interesting things did they talk about regarding Twilight?

I'm well acquainted with this dynamic since a big theme of the Bubblegum book was that the genre didn't receive any critical respect because it was aimed at teenaged girls. From that I became quite aware that several things are happening with Bubblegum and Boy Bands that aren't immediately apparent.

For one thing, girls don't just consume that music passively (cf., Bandom). They're selective about what they take from it. Also, it's a way to negotiate ideas of intimacy which are important to them, and the standard cultural narratives don't work for them.


Sophia Brooks - Jan 13, 2012 7:33:34 am PST #8328 of 10459
Cats to become a rabbit should gather immediately now here

Every time I feel annoyed with young girls who like Twilight, I remember how into VC Andrews I was at that age.


askye - Jan 13, 2012 7:38:10 am PST #8329 of 10459
Thrive to spite them

I was also into YA romances, some Sweet Valley High but I really liked the ones where there was some kind of tragedy. The main character had cancer or lost a limb, or the love interest is sick or dies at the end.


Kate P. - Jan 13, 2012 7:43:13 am PST #8330 of 10459
That's the pain / That cuts a straight line down through the heart / We call it love

I'm curious now - what interesting things did they talk about regarding Twilight?

Generally the talk about the relationships was the most interesting. Some girls (and though I did know a few boys who read the books, it's mostly the girls who would discuss it with me) were able to articulate pretty well what they found appealing or what they didn't like about Bella and Edward's relationship. I was especially heartened to hear a few of them say that they thought Edward's behavior was actually kind of creepy. It helped me to remember that, as you note, they aren't just taking in these ideas and messages uncritically -- lots of kids who read these books are engaging with them and using them to figure out what they do or don't want in their own relationships.


Fred Pete - Jan 13, 2012 7:47:13 am PST #8331 of 10459
Ann, that's a ferret.

My experience with Twilight is limited to the last movie, but Hec's comment makes it make sense.

I got the feeling that the movie was a decent hokey melodrama dressed up as The! Greatest! Love! Story! Ever! But when you're 12, romantic involvements are something new that you and your peers have never experienced before. So even if the same kind of love story has happened a million times before to a million people, it still feels like the biggest thing in the world when it happens to someone for the first time.

If anyone remembers a Neil Diamond song called "Front Page Story" (though I won't be surprised if only Rio remembers it, and she hasn't been around for ages), it's the same idea.


Matt the Bruins fan - Jan 13, 2012 9:06:07 am PST #8332 of 10459
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

I do hope that they serve a purpose (kind of like the Harry Potter books, but without the redeeming features of the texts themselves) in getting lots kids enthusiastic about reading when they hadn't previously been into it. Then they can hopefully go on to read other things by non-hack writers.

But since the author herself is not a 12-year-old girl with no firsthand experience of dating or romantic relationships, I feel no constraints about the level of cruelty that goes into my mockery of her and her work.


le nubian - Jan 13, 2012 9:36:34 am PST #8333 of 10459
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."

Look, I read VC Andrews, but I knew what the books were when I read them! It's like when you read Judy Blume's Forever. You know what it is.

I read Sweet Valley High when I was a teenager too, but I put that in appropriate context with Edgar Allen Poe, Twain, and Ellison.


DavidS - Jan 13, 2012 9:43:59 am PST #8334 of 10459
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I read Sweet Valley High when I was a teenager too, but I put that in appropriate context with Edgar Allen Poe, Twain, and Ellison.

And what are the Twilight fans reading? Do you know?

Let's ask a librarian - Kate! Beth!


Sophia Brooks - Jan 13, 2012 9:45:39 am PST #8335 of 10459
Cats to become a rabbit should gather immediately now here

Though I recognized VC Andrews as light reading, I thought they were super romantic when I was reading them. Possibly because I am an only child...


Kate P. - Jan 13, 2012 9:51:13 am PST #8336 of 10459
That's the pain / That cuts a straight line down through the heart / We call it love

I think a lot of kids reading Twilight know it isn't great world literature or anything. And probably most of the ones who are obsessed with it will grow out of it, and possibly be a little embarrassed by their fervor when they look back five or ten years later. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing for them to be reading books that they can totally fall in love with now, even if those books are, well, not very good and laden with all kinds of problematic messages.

And what are the Twilight fans reading? Do you know?

In my experience, mostly they're reading books for school, and Twilight and other stuff along those lines (like manga, which was big in my library) is their respite from that. (The big readers, obviously, are reading whatever they want.)