at a certain level it's awful for everyone to slam them and everyone who likes them so harshly

I don't really believe in sparing anything just because a lot of people like it, even if it is a vulnerable market. They can like Hunger Games instead, you know?

I only mildly mocked the franchise until I saw one of the movies, and I was really grossed out by it, and now I'm vituperative on the topic. If that dissuades anyone from identifying too closely with what's going on *in a positive way*, I don't apologise.

Yeah, I mean, part of why I slam it myself is because it is SO BAD for them to be walking away with those messages. And yeah, I'm not saying anyone here is mocking preteen girls. But people do, and it makes me mad, too.

I think at the targeted age, I might have been a fan, at least of the first one. From where I sit now, I'm entertained by different things. I've also read a lot more books.

I totally hear you, Liese. I had several discussions with librarian friends a few years back about how to discuss Twilight with the kids in our libraries who loved the books, when we ourselves thought they were so awful. (And they are. I have a whole rant. Terrible on multiple levels, and yet I can so easily see their appeal, too.) Generally I stuck with being honest but brief about my own feelings about the books ("I'm not crazy about them, but tell me why you like them"), and trying to encourage kids to think and talk about them. Sometimes the talk was just "Team Edward!!1!111!" but sometimes it went deeper, and was really interesting.

Sometimes the talk was just "Team Edward!!1!111!" but sometimes it went deeper, and was really interesting.

I'm curious now - what interesting things did they talk about regarding Twilight?

I'm well acquainted with this dynamic since a big theme of the Bubblegum book was that the genre didn't receive any critical respect because it was aimed at teenaged girls. From that I became quite aware that several things are happening with Bubblegum and Boy Bands that aren't immediately apparent.

For one thing, girls don't just consume that music passively (cf., Bandom). They're selective about what they take from it. Also, it's a way to negotiate ideas of intimacy which are important to them, and the standard cultural narratives don't work for them.

Every time I feel annoyed with young girls who like Twilight, I remember how into VC Andrews I was at that age.

I was also into YA romances, some Sweet Valley High but I really liked the ones where there was some kind of tragedy. The main character had cancer or lost a limb, or the love interest is sick or dies at the end.

I'm curious now - what interesting things did they talk about regarding Twilight?

Generally the talk about the relationships was the most interesting. Some girls (and though I did know a few boys who read the books, it's mostly the girls who would discuss it with me) were able to articulate pretty well what they found appealing or what they didn't like about Bella and Edward's relationship. I was especially heartened to hear a few of them say that they thought Edward's behavior was actually kind of creepy. It helped me to remember that, as you note, they aren't just taking in these ideas and messages uncritically -- lots of kids who read these books are engaging with them and using them to figure out what they do or don't want in their own relationships.

My experience with Twilight is limited to the last movie, but Hec's comment makes it make sense.

I got the feeling that the movie was a decent hokey melodrama dressed up as The! Greatest! Love! Story! Ever! But when you're 12, romantic involvements are something new that you and your peers have never experienced before. So even if the same kind of love story has happened a million times before to a million people, it still feels like the biggest thing in the world when it happens to someone for the first time.

If anyone remembers a Neil Diamond song called "Front Page Story" (though I won't be surprised if only Rio remembers it, and she hasn't been around for ages), it's the same idea.

I do hope that they serve a purpose (kind of like the Harry Potter books, but without the redeeming features of the texts themselves) in getting lots kids enthusiastic about reading when they hadn't previously been into it. Then they can hopefully go on to read other things by non-hack writers.

But since the author herself is not a 12-year-old girl with no firsthand experience of dating or romantic relationships, I feel no constraints about the level of cruelty that goes into my mockery of her and her work.