Buffy and Angel 1: BUFFYNANGLE4EVA!!!!!1!
Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.
loves that this is still worth arguing over
Buffy mentioned how Willow had told Xander to tell her to kick Angel's ass, and Willow was like, "What? I never said that."
I didn't get the impression that they ever came back to that, though, since it went by so fast. I suppose Buffy could have thought it over later and realized what had happened, but since we never saw any other fallout, I think it's more probable that the conversation moved on and that was the end of it. Total continuitygasm for the fans, though.
but he didn't flay anyone, or try to kill her and her little sister
Not being Hitler doesn't make you not a killer.
I was responding to the post directly above, for context:
Xander always had B's back, yo.
No, no he didn't.
But Buffy doesn't know about that lie, ita.
Not being caught doesn't make you not a killer either.
Puh-leeze. He hated Angel, and Angelus had killed people he cared about. That dead-horse lie was a totally selfish move on Xander's part.
This is all true. Cordelia agreed with him, and she didn't have the same hate-on for Angel. Xander first hated Angel, because he was a glowery, hunky, creature of the night thing, who ignited Buffy's fire when he himself couldn't produce a spark. He grew to have a grudging respect for him, but always saw him as a rival.
That said, he gave the "Kick his ass," false-message from Willow, after Angelus had killed Jenny, and he knew Angelus was working with Spike and Dru, and lured Buffy off to fight him in the cemetery as part of a set-up which left him (Xander) and the Scooby Gang vulnerable to Dru and her minions when they attacked Kendra and the Scoobies, in the library. Willow was hospitalized with serious injuries, and Kendra was dead. Xander did not have enough faith in Buffy's objectivity, to believe she would be able to kill Angelus, if there was a chance he might be cursed back into having a soul. It was a total judgment call. He played dirty pool, but with good reasoning. He was wrong. Buffy was not only capable of killing Angelus, she was capable of killing Angel, if need be, but how would Xander have known this. His life, and the world were on the line. Xander's actions were horrific, and completely defensible, given the situation.
This kind of thing happens all the time-- it
just so happens
that what he believes is the "right" thing to do (keeping Buffy on game) directly coincides with the result he would prefer (punishing Angel). It's not so much either/or (selfish or just) as people tend to conform their view of the "right" thing to do with the best result for themselves.
This is just like
Survivor,
see.
Okay, CBS picked up all the ME alum shows: Alyson Hannigan's show with Neil Patrick Harris, The Unit which has Amy Acker and some show (Close to Home) with Christian Kane and a woman who was on Crossing Jordan.
Sees dead horse. Rides same.
You beat a dead horse, hon. You ride a, um, a tired horse. Until it is dead.
I do enjoy that the Xander Lie keeps coming up. It's proof that it's dramatically real, you know? That it's not something everybody comes down on the same side about, that it's legitimately gray. I dig that.
Which is to say, Xander has many faults, but also many strengths; saying, "Kick his ass" was a failure to relate possibly-important data, but it was a prime example of Xander being supportive in a way he knows how to do. Frightened guy with a rock, blurty, occasionally cruel, avoidant, but also, all the cavalry available, and kind, and helpful, and once in a blue moon, wise. He is human.
Young!Xander always wanted to be the protector. Just look at his relationship with Willow. He tried to protect Buffy by not giving her (in his mind) false hope that they could get Angel back. I think if she had thought there was a real chance, it would have changed the outcome of the fight. Her desire to survive eventually crushed her last reservations about offing her tru wuv.
That it also fueled his own anger/desire for revenge, as bon bon said, is a convenient by-product.
eta: Nutty hits it on the head. He's human. Totally allowed to screw up.
You beat a dead horse, hon. You ride a, um, a tired horse. Until it is dead.
I am a rebel.
This kind of thing happens all the time-- it just so happens that what he believes is the "right" thing to do (keeping Buffy on game) directly coincides with the result he would prefer (punishing Angel). It's not so much either/or (selfish or just) as people tend to conform their view of the "right" thing to do with the best result for themselves.
Except that Xander teamed up with Angel when the situation required it. ("Lie to Me" for example.) Xander may dislike the "stench" of Angel (from Xander's view), but he would hold his nose and work with Angel if he thought it was necessary or right. Iffn Xander thought that Angel could be resouled and be a help to Buffy and/or the Scooby Gang, then maybe he would have given Buffy a different message. But he saw that time was short and did not believe that Angel was coming back as an ally. So he opted to do what was necessary to rev Buffy up for the kill.
You beat a dead horse, hon. You ride a, um, a tired horse. Until it is dead.
And then you beat it in a fit of pique? You could be on top of the dead horse when you're trying to make it move.
You could be on top of the dead horse when you're trying to make it move.
t such very bad pictures in my head
