But Buffy doesn't know about that lie, ita.
Easy Bake. Flop-a-palooza. Woosh. Pop. I don't skulk.
Angel ,'Shells'
Buffy and Angel 1: BUFFYNANGLE4EVA!!!!!1!
Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.
DebetEsse - May 18, 2005 6:49:15 am PDT #822 of 10458
Woe to the fucking wicked.
Glamcookie - May 18, 2005 6:51:49 am PDT #823 of 10458
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister
Also the lie, while shitty, doesn't come close to the things Dark!Willow did.
ETA: I can't believe I'm slagging Willow and defending Xander! My world is turned upside down!
Narrator - May 18, 2005 6:52:32 am PDT #824 of 10458
The evil is this way?
Well, there is that lie about Angel. That wasn't perfectly healthy, helpful and supportive, by a long shot.
Sees dead horse. Rides same. I disagree. He thought that Buffy needed to focus on the fight and save the world without being distracted by the real long shot that Willow could resoul Angel.
Scrappy - May 18, 2005 6:54:17 am PDT #825 of 10458
Life moves pretty fast. You don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.
He thought that Buffy needed to focus on the fight and save the world without being distracted by the real long shot that Willow could resoul Angel.
Yeah, but a true friend doesn't decide for one what is best--they give one all the information and trust one's judgment. My friends don't make choices for me because that makes me powerless.
Steph L. - May 18, 2005 6:54:58 am PDT #826 of 10458
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe
I disagree. He thought that Buffy needed to focus on the fight and save the world without being distracted by the real long shot that Willow could resoul Angel.
Puh-leeze. He hated Angel, and Angelus had killed people he cared about. That dead-horse lie was a totally selfish move on Xander's part.
Calli - May 18, 2005 6:55:29 am PDT #827 of 10458
I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul—Calvin and Hobbs
But Buffy doesn't know about that lie,
I thought it came out as a near-throwaway line in the last season. Buffy mentioned how Willow had told Xander to tell her to kick Angel's ass, and Willow was like, "What? I never said that."
Topic!Cindy - May 18, 2005 6:58:20 am PDT #828 of 10458
What is even happening?
Sees dead horse. Rides same. I disagree. He thought that Buffy needed to focus on the fight and save the world without being distracted by the real long shot that Willow could resoul Angel.
Giddyap. Yeah. He was 17. He was 17, and wrong. He was 17, and wrong, for the right reasons. I am way more disappointed in Mutant Enemy for never giving us any more of a reveal on Xander's lie than the blessed tease given by Ultimate Drew in Season 7, than I am in Xander, for overstepping.
Jessica - May 18, 2005 6:58:41 am PDT #829 of 10458
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset
loves that this is still worth arguing over
Buffy mentioned how Willow had told Xander to tell her to kick Angel's ass, and Willow was like, "What? I never said that."
I didn't get the impression that they ever came back to that, though, since it went by so fast. I suppose Buffy could have thought it over later and realized what had happened, but since we never saw any other fallout, I think it's more probable that the conversation moved on and that was the end of it. Total continuitygasm for the fans, though.
§ ita § - May 18, 2005 6:59:28 am PDT #830 of 10458
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
but he didn't flay anyone, or try to kill her and her little sister
Not being Hitler doesn't make you not a killer.
I was responding to the post directly above, for context:
Xander always had B's back, yo.
No, no he didn't.
But Buffy doesn't know about that lie, ita.
Not being caught doesn't make you not a killer either.
Topic!Cindy - May 18, 2005 7:05:33 am PDT #831 of 10458
What is even happening?
Puh-leeze. He hated Angel, and Angelus had killed people he cared about. That dead-horse lie was a totally selfish move on Xander's part.This is all true. Cordelia agreed with him, and she didn't have the same hate-on for Angel. Xander first hated Angel, because he was a glowery, hunky, creature of the night thing, who ignited Buffy's fire when he himself couldn't produce a spark. He grew to have a grudging respect for him, but always saw him as a rival.
That said, he gave the "Kick his ass," false-message from Willow, after Angelus had killed Jenny, and he knew Angelus was working with Spike and Dru, and lured Buffy off to fight him in the cemetery as part of a set-up which left him (Xander) and the Scooby Gang vulnerable to Dru and her minions when they attacked Kendra and the Scoobies, in the library. Willow was hospitalized with serious injuries, and Kendra was dead. Xander did not have enough faith in Buffy's objectivity, to believe she would be able to kill Angelus, if there was a chance he might be cursed back into having a soul. It was a total judgment call. He played dirty pool, but with good reasoning. He was wrong. Buffy was not only capable of killing Angelus, she was capable of killing Angel, if need be, but how would Xander have known this. His life, and the world were on the line. Xander's actions were horrific, and completely defensible, given the situation.