Raise your hand if 'ew.'

Buffy ,'Same Time, Same Place'


Buffy and Angel 1: BUFFYNANGLE4EVA!!!!!1!

Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.


le nubian - Jan 10, 2012 2:48:59 pm PST #8196 of 10459
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."

I think more to the point perhaps: I thought it was strange that ostensibly both Angel and Spike wanted to be "better people" after seeing/falling in love with Buffy. Yes, it is true that Spike didn't follow Angel's trajectory EXACTLY, but having them be in competition with each other physically, for Buffy, having them both ensouled, I didn't like it.

I liked Spike as a straight up villain. I get that ultimately the major characters got some redemption arc (even Darla!), but for me it was just too much. I liked the uniqueness of a vampire with a soul. Did we really need two - and then for them to be on the same show?!


§ ita § - Jan 10, 2012 3:03:14 pm PST #8197 of 10459
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Spike didn't follow Angel's trajectory EXACTLY

I'm not saying it has to be exact. I'm saying that it's missing a major defining characteristic. Cheerful aggro Angel is ... not Angel. Even if Angel things happen to him. It's not a character arc in my book, because the characters are so radically different.


askye - Jan 10, 2012 3:14:19 pm PST #8198 of 10459
Thrive to spite them

That's another thing, by the time Spike got a soul he didn't feel like a radically different character to me. By that time it just felt like ...almost like they ran out of ideas to keep Spike around so they just rebooted Angel getting a soul. A little different, but not radically different and not original.


Cass - Jan 10, 2012 3:15:57 pm PST #8199 of 10459
Bob's learned to live with tragedy, but he knows that this tragedy is one that won't ever leave him or get better.

I'd never read Mark WAtches/Read before this. I'm not sure if he's ever dealt with characters that were not sane. I get that he doesn't like the word crazy nor does he want to use it. From what people have said here, saying someone is insane is okay, or at least acknowledging they are mentally ill is okay.

However, there's a big difference between not using a word you think is a slur and ignoring a huge aspect of a character.

The difference between a slur and something diagnostically accurate is huge to me to, askye. And I am glad you said something because it's been bothering me too.


DCJensen - Jan 10, 2012 3:39:18 pm PST #8200 of 10459
All is well that ends in pizza.

I think Mark is trying to purge some words from his own lexicon, and it's his blog, his rules.

I personally wish I could purge "gypped" from my own word list, but it's fairly well ingrained and (around here) divorced from it's origins that I have to remind myself.

OTOH? There are a number of things I have managed to purge from childhood, so at least the outlook is good.

Back to Mark. Someone recently told him he should go back to his old reviews and replace every "list post" with a "real" review. That's chutzpah!


§ ita § - Jan 10, 2012 3:43:14 pm PST #8201 of 10459
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Purging words is all nice and good, but I haven't heard anyone complaining about, say, gypped by also rooting out synonyms. I don't raise an eyebrow at someone who doesn't want you to use derogatory terms for things--but you can't (okay, you can, but I don't think it's healthy) ban concepts. Especially when they're right in front of you.


Cass - Jan 10, 2012 3:59:31 pm PST #8202 of 10459
Bob's learned to live with tragedy, but he knows that this tragedy is one that won't ever leave him or get better.

I think Mark is trying to purge some words from his own lexicon, and it's his blog, his rules.

His blog, his rules absolutely. I just personally don't think it's entirely healthy to ban the word and not just its use as a slur. The "gay is not a synonym for shitty" clarification, as it were.

Gay is not a bad word and I don't think it should be treated as one. But that only works when you can get people to go along with you.

When dealing with the whole internet on your blog, maybe erring on the side of nonuse is easier than the alternative for him. I think it takes away a valid description of Dru, but his rules.


Steph L. - Jan 10, 2012 4:54:48 pm PST #8203 of 10459
I look more rad than Lutheranism

Was anyone else kind of grossed out by the demon thinking so poorly of Giles respecting Jenny’s consent?

Wait, Mark said that? I have to echo ita here, and say -- does he GET what a demon is?


DCJensen - Jan 10, 2012 5:04:02 pm PST #8204 of 10459
All is well that ends in pizza.

I'm not sure. He's got some holes in his SF/Fantasy education.


§ ita § - Jan 10, 2012 5:11:19 pm PST #8205 of 10459
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I think that Joss alone does a decent setup of "Evil. Monsters do it, people do it. It's bad." You don't need to be well read to get that.

He's appalled at what the bad people do? Welcome to ... oh, welcome.