Sophia,

why do you believe this about Zoe?

And Zoe seems unique and different from anything he has done before, and frankly from anything done anywhere.

Teppy, could you please whitefont the Season 8 stuff? It's not been in the collections yet.

I didn't know that was our spoiler policy, although in thinking about it, I'm not sure we have one for mentioning the comics outside of the comic thread (where the spoiler policy is to wait until the weekend following the release).

I'm sorry, I phrased that poorly. I didn't mean that because of what had or hadn't been released it wasn't kosher, but rather a request, as someone who isn't buying single issues.

Sorry, le nubian, I went to bed. And I have to say this is much more from the TV show than the movie, and my opinion might have changed if the series went on longer

Zoe feels unique to me because she a) is a strong woman physically and mentally, without an explaining reason that seems like an excuse for a woman to be strong (like her son died or she needed to protect something), b) has no sexual tension whatsoever with Mal, and I don't think ever did, c) she is happily married, but has realistic marital troubles given her personality as well as realistic marital romance. Despite the fact that she is a gun toting second in command on a space-ship, she feels like a real person, not a collection of things that will make her interesting to the story.

Sophia,

hey, I posted that this morning, so you responded in the same day to me! :-)

[link]

This link is a new column from one of the founders of TWOP and she describes the Bechtel rule:

1. At least two female characters, who ...

2. talk to each other about...

3. something besides a man.

Your comments and the above rules remind me that it can be really hard to find that a self-confident woman character on tv who doesn't have sexual tension with the main male characters.

It's really quite sad how few movies/ & TV shows pass the Bechtel test. It gets a bit easier if you bend #3 to "a man who is not a potential love interest for either one." (So a movie would pass if you have, say, 2 female doctors discussing a male patient.)

I'm curious about how many movies/TV shows pass the Bechdel Test by having #3 be a conversation about their kids.

Which is not to say that one's family is not a valid topic of conversation, but it still reduces the role of the characters to Mommy.

Bull Durham certainly doesn't pass the Bechdel Test, but I still love the conversation that Annie and Millie have when Millie asks Annie if she deserves to wear a white wedding dress, and Annie says, "Honey, we all deserve to wear white." (Or does that count as not being a conversation about a man, since even though Annie is fitting Millie for her wedding dress, they don't talk about men, technically?)

Jesus God, that movie is 20 years old. I feel like a fossil.

Jesus God, that movie is 20 years old. I feel like a fossil.

Tell me about it. It both feels like I just saw it for the first time a couple of years ago, and that I've known it forever.

Jesus God, that movie is 20 years old. I feel like a fossil.

I just draw comfort from the fact that Susan Sarandon was my age when she made that movie. She looked fabulous, got to get naked with Kevin when he was still very pretty, and snagged herself the cute, very smart, and twelve years-younger Tim Robbins as a life partner during the filming.

Why I draw comfort from this, I don't know, but it at least keeps me from feeling like a fossil.

In the original pitch (and I think one of the drafts) for Firefly, Zoe was a man.