I kind of wonder that too, Shir. I didn't think it was the bestest episode ever, but I liked some of it quite a bit.

My reasons are back a few posts. I wasn't impressed with them killing a major character so soon before the end of the show, and all their efforts to remind us how much everyone else cared about Fred felt gratuitous and contrived. With possibly the exception of Wesley shooting someone in the knee, as there at least they were showing rather than just telling.

I will quote myself because I am shameless. And more importantly, lazy.

This isn't really an episode that's all about Fred. It's all about how other people feel about Fred, and, most particularly, how Wesley feels about Fred. I mean, they only hooked up last week so that this would be that much worse for him; it'd be just as bad for her if they'd kept it on a "just friends" level. Wesley's the tragic martyr who has to watch his sweetie dying, and he's being noble and supportive as his heart breaks, and it could be his dog dying instead for how much who Fred is matters to this. She's not a character, she's a blank screen the other characters project things on. She had no real responsibility for getting sick; that was done to her. She has no ability to save herself; that's up to the others. She could be anyone. It doesn't matter.

Plus there's the excruciating dialogue and the 12-hour death scene and the stuff that I think is meant to be romantic that's actually incredibly creepy. And just the crassness of the manipulation which is a major problem with Whedon. I mean, the opening flashback? The goddamn toy rabbit? It feels like bad faith -- that he writes that stuff solely because it's an easy way to pull tears out of the audience. And at a basic writing level, there's exposition that's more confusing than the thing it's explaining, and a deeply lame "oh no, I am undone by my own sudden & inexplicable carelessness" gotcha for Knox.

I don't know. The run-of-the-mill bad episodes, like She and I Fall to Pieces... they are at least fun to mock. A Hole in the World and Dad make me profoundly angry and then I start ranting and foaming at the mouth and feh.

The reason I didn't care for "A Hole in the World" on the first viewing was because I figured they'd rescue her, so it was just kind of boring. It wasn't until halfway through "Shells" that there was the revelation that Fred's soul had been destroyed during Illyria's resurrection and that Fred could never come back, leaving me with an "Oh, I guess that's kind of sad" response.

Dramatically, I'd have to start out knowing that she was gonna die to give a damn. It also didn't help that she died on a cliffhanger, because that always [except here, I guess] means the character's coming back next week. It's nice that Joss refused a cliche, but he sacrificed the emotional integrity of the episode to do so.

But rewatching the episode, knowing what's going to happen, I do think it's a well-written tragedy. It's just a shame that it's structured so that it doesn't work if you haven't already seen it.

The goddamn toy rabbit?

Aaaauuuuugh. That was the point in the episode where I broke down crying. I knew I was being manipulated, I was angry I was being manipulated, but the bit about her toy bunny smashed my buttons with a hammer, and I started sobbing.

(Excuse me, I need to go grab Clovis and mutter despairingly about the Velveteen Rabbit.)

I am Jilli, only not nearly dressed as well.

My favorite season of Angel was the first one. Although loved the show to the end, it was never the same to me after St. Cordy, possibly as early as baby Connor.

You see? I can understand to some rational extent your reasons. But the minute the ep will start to play, that's it. I'm its bitch. I don't care being manipulated (but not lied to), gutted, puppet of the writers as long as they keep it real to the emotion, and do it well.

It's funny. I had a conversation yesterday with Nilly about religion: pragmatism vs philosophy behind it. And there I said I have to understand the philosophy, the big picture, before starting do the rituals. It's not that I can't understand faith - I have some, stashed somewhere, probably. It also has nothing to do with my reasoning. But that faith - philosophy - emotion, once it's there, it takes over. And that, I guess, is the case with me and A Hole in the World.

I figured they'd rescue her

I never thought they'll rescue her. And if they would have found a way to save her soul again, after what they did to me in A Hole, I'd never forgive them. Or possibly love the show even more, if there was good, solid reasoning behind it, and savvy emotion.

Strega sums up in actual words what tends to come out of my mouth as "FUCK A DUCK, JOSS, IT'S THE AGENCY, STUPID."

Which, umm. You know. Still makes me cranky.

Strega sums up in actual words what tends to come out of my mouth as "FUCK A DUCK, JOSS, IT'S THE AGENCY, STUPID."

Heh. Just watched the end of Dogma with JZ and I did note, "Say what you will about Kevin Smith, his women characters have agency."

Strega sums up in actual words what tends to come out of my mouth as "FUCK A DUCK, JOSS, IT'S THE AGENCY, STUPID."

nods

Tho' all of my annoyance and rage about the lack of agency are completely circumvented by the toy bunny. She asks for him, and can't remember who he is! Aaaaauuuuugh! (Yes, I have issues. What?)

Strega sums up in actual words what tends to come out of my mouth as "FUCK A DUCK, JOSS, IT'S THE AGENCY, STUPID."

Hee. Plei and Strega both speak for me, right down to the S4 love.

I think I remember hating Provider more mostly because my Dad-induced cranky from the week before still hadn't worn off, and then they had to go and do it again. But then they slit Wesley's throat and sent wee baby Connor off to the insta-teen hell dimension and all was right with the world again.

I blame AtS entirely for my Extremely Wrong Woobification of Pete on Mad Men. Because he does not deserve it even a little bit on that show, and yet I CAN'T STOP. Oh VK, why must you be so woobifiable?