The reason I didn't care for "A Hole in the World" on the first viewing was because I figured they'd rescue her, so it was just kind of boring. It wasn't until halfway through "Shells" that there was the revelation that Fred's soul had been destroyed during Illyria's resurrection and that Fred could never come back, leaving me with an "Oh, I guess that's kind of sad" response.

Dramatically, I'd have to start out knowing that she was gonna die to give a damn. It also didn't help that she died on a cliffhanger, because that always [except here, I guess] means the character's coming back next week. It's nice that Joss refused a cliche, but he sacrificed the emotional integrity of the episode to do so.

But rewatching the episode, knowing what's going to happen, I do think it's a well-written tragedy. It's just a shame that it's structured so that it doesn't work if you haven't already seen it.

The goddamn toy rabbit?

Aaaauuuuugh. That was the point in the episode where I broke down crying. I knew I was being manipulated, I was angry I was being manipulated, but the bit about her toy bunny smashed my buttons with a hammer, and I started sobbing.

(Excuse me, I need to go grab Clovis and mutter despairingly about the Velveteen Rabbit.)

I am Jilli, only not nearly dressed as well.

My favorite season of Angel was the first one. Although loved the show to the end, it was never the same to me after St. Cordy, possibly as early as baby Connor.

You see? I can understand to some rational extent your reasons. But the minute the ep will start to play, that's it. I'm its bitch. I don't care being manipulated (but not lied to), gutted, puppet of the writers as long as they keep it real to the emotion, and do it well.

It's funny. I had a conversation yesterday with Nilly about religion: pragmatism vs philosophy behind it. And there I said I have to understand the philosophy, the big picture, before starting do the rituals. It's not that I can't understand faith - I have some, stashed somewhere, probably. It also has nothing to do with my reasoning. But that faith - philosophy - emotion, once it's there, it takes over. And that, I guess, is the case with me and A Hole in the World.

I figured they'd rescue her

I never thought they'll rescue her. And if they would have found a way to save her soul again, after what they did to me in A Hole, I'd never forgive them. Or possibly love the show even more, if there was good, solid reasoning behind it, and savvy emotion.

Strega sums up in actual words what tends to come out of my mouth as "FUCK A DUCK, JOSS, IT'S THE AGENCY, STUPID."

Which, umm. You know. Still makes me cranky.

Strega sums up in actual words what tends to come out of my mouth as "FUCK A DUCK, JOSS, IT'S THE AGENCY, STUPID."

Heh. Just watched the end of Dogma with JZ and I did note, "Say what you will about Kevin Smith, his women characters have agency."

Strega sums up in actual words what tends to come out of my mouth as "FUCK A DUCK, JOSS, IT'S THE AGENCY, STUPID."

nods

Tho' all of my annoyance and rage about the lack of agency are completely circumvented by the toy bunny. She asks for him, and can't remember who he is! Aaaaauuuuugh! (Yes, I have issues. What?)

Strega sums up in actual words what tends to come out of my mouth as "FUCK A DUCK, JOSS, IT'S THE AGENCY, STUPID."

Hee. Plei and Strega both speak for me, right down to the S4 love.

I think I remember hating Provider more mostly because my Dad-induced cranky from the week before still hadn't worn off, and then they had to go and do it again. But then they slit Wesley's throat and sent wee baby Connor off to the insta-teen hell dimension and all was right with the world again.

I blame AtS entirely for my Extremely Wrong Woobification of Pete on Mad Men. Because he does not deserve it even a little bit on that show, and yet I CAN'T STOP. Oh VK, why must you be so woobifiable?

I have that saem Mad Men problem. I keep making excuses like "but he was raised by a crazy man in a hell dimension".

Actually THAT would be an interesting au-- Conner being turned into Pete to save him.

It's the opposite for me. I hated Connor, so VK had to redeem Pete in my eyes. Unfortunately, the character is so horrible that it's not going to happen. I do, however, give VK his props for the acting chops, he plays the character really well.