hmmm. Well, if my thesis advisor is done with it....
You got all kinds of learnin' and you made me look the fool without tryin', and yet here I am with a gun to your head. That's 'cause I got people with me. People who trust each other, who do for each other, and ain't always lookin' for the advantage.
Mal ,'Our Mrs. Reynolds'
Buffy and Angel 1: BUFFYNANGLE4EVA!!!!!1!
Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.
Una - Aug 23, 2007 2:46:15 pm PDT #5238 of 10469
when i die, please bake my ashes into a brick and use me to hit fascists.
Strega - Aug 23, 2007 5:21:45 pm PDT #5239 of 10469
William's soul was too weak and used to being submissive to take over fully except for a few early bouts of weepy cross
Before I'd processed what I was reading, my brain decided that the next word was "dressing."
I like that idea so much more than what we saw.
Matt the Bruins fan - Aug 23, 2007 7:06:01 pm PDT #5240 of 10469
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand
It might have spared us Buffy mooning about him in Season 7.
Frankenbuddha - Aug 24, 2007 3:37:52 am PDT #5241 of 10469
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"
William's soul was too weak and used to being submissive to take over fully except for a few early bouts of weepy cross climbing.
And, of course, one final poetry slam for old time's sake. That still makes me chuckle, though I'm sure it was as much the company I saw the Angel finale with as anything else.
victor infante - Aug 24, 2007 4:02:25 am PDT #5242 of 10469
To understand what happened at the diner, we shall use Mr. Papaya! This is upsetting because he's the friendliest of fruits.
And, of course, one final poetry slam for old time's sake. That still makes me chuckle, though I'm sure it was as much the company I saw the Angel finale with as anything else.
One imagines ...
William's soul was too weak and used to being submissive to take over fully except for a few early bouts of weepy cross climbing.
I think I disagree. On a number of counts, really. First off, I'm not entirely sure that the soul only equals the conscience, although I'd agree that's the clearest manifestation.
One of two things pretty much have to be true: Angel's early explanations on what happens when a person's vamped are somewhat erroneous, and that a vampire is more of the original person and less demon walking around as that person than he gives credit to, or it's more-or-less exactly what he says. Which makes the case of Spike ... interesting.
Because Spike with or without a soul is pretty much the same guy. And indeed, as far back as Season Two, The Judge says that he has "the stink of humanity" on him.
Frankly, I think William was a stronger person than anyone, himself included, gave him credit for. Sure, he was a bit of a ponce, and a bloody awful poet, but he loved deeply and unconditionally, and that affection burned into him, even when he became a vampire. I think, free from doubts and insecurities, -- and, of course, conscience -- William's personality was remarkably strong, enough to make him largely anomalous among vampires, and strong enough that, when he gets his soul back, he doesn't suffer the drastic personality shift Angel does.
It probably doesn't hurt that Spike seeks out his soul on his own, as opposed to having it forced back into him. That probably makes the transition a little bit easier. But yeah, I fully believe (and we've seen enough evidence) that Spike and Angel both have a human soul and a demon in their heads, but William's personality was always stronger than Liam's, and held a lot more sway over the vampire persona than Liam ever did.
SailAweigh - Aug 24, 2007 4:16:43 am PDT #5243 of 10469
Nana korobi, ya oki. (Fall down seven times, stand up eight.) ~Yuzuru Hanyu/Japanese proverb
I t heart victor.
DCJensen - Aug 24, 2007 4:43:59 am PDT #5244 of 10469
All is well that ends in pizza.
Somewhere I have long copious notes on a method of differentiating the various types of vampires in BVS. Victor has it in a nutshell.
Some of the beast-like vamps are basically low in both human and vamp soul. Neither is dominant, so their behavior falls to instinct.
Fred Pete - Aug 24, 2007 4:48:54 am PDT #5245 of 10469
Ann, that's a ferret.
Circumstances in life also helped make Liam and William (and apparently, Angel and Spike) what they were. Liam was a child of privilege, William wasn't. As much as Liam fought with his father, he no doubt suffered fewer consequences from drinking and wenching (at least until Darla showed up) than William would have. Not to mention the different societal norms of the mid 18th century landed gentry and the late 19th century urban middle class.
A thought just popped into my mind. Liam correlates more closely with Spike than with souled Angel -- rowdy hellraisers both. And William correlates more closely with souled Angel than with Spike -- sensitive and not quite fitting into the world.
Frankenbuddha - Aug 24, 2007 4:50:00 am PDT #5246 of 10469
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"
I'm loving all the spicey brains on display. That it's about our girl (and our hairloaf) so long after the fact just makes it all that much better.
DCJensen - Aug 24, 2007 4:55:27 am PDT #5247 of 10469
All is well that ends in pizza.
Andi and I just bought the entire Buffy and Angel oeuvre from Best Buy.
Unfortunately the "in stock" message for all 12 seasons was incorrect for the store. Good thing I pass by 3 Best Buy stores and the corporate offices on my way to and from work...
Even then, I will end up stopping at two and season 4 of Buffy is coming by mail, for free.