Point Pleasant did not fill me with admiration of Marti Noxon's showrunning capabilities and I'm pretty sure Joss wasn't responsible for that.

I can't speak to exactly what Marti was responsible for in later seasons of Buffy but my impression has always been that she's much better as a writer on an individual episode basis than trying to hold everything together for season arcs. Which isn't really a horrible indictment—before Wonderfalls I was far more impressed with Tim's writing than his stint as showrunner, and I now anticipate each new project from him as much as from Joss.

I think the fan vitriol directed at Noxon should be aimed at Whedon instead.

I liked most of S6 (S7, less so, but I loved "Chosen") but yeah, if one is to be bitter toward TPTB, surely a large part of the blame must fall on Joss's shoulder. Which is sort of what he said in his post.

I stopped watching Grey's Anatomy after S2, but the show feels like good fit for MN's talents.

Matt, what years was Tim a showrunner on Angel and what didn't you like about them?

He was showrunner for year 3, and it would be easier to list what I did like about that season after about episode 6 or so. Though the most horrible thing was what was done to Cordelia's characterization in the name of making her more "heroic"/a suitable love interest for Angel, and I think that was a Joss & David Greenwalt decision (Greenie was the loudest voice talking about how great the changes were). Overall I thought the season didn't hold together cohesively and descended into melodrama without the layers and, well, somewhat sensical plots that made the similarly melodramatic Buffy season 3 enjoyable.

I think what galls me the most (aside from the rudeness) is that while Joss is brilliant and Marti is fabulous, they are allowed to write downright crap every once in a while. They are human. Not every single episode of Buffy, Angel, or Firefly was up there with "Innocence", [insert really great Angel episode], and "Out of Gas". And nor should they be.

Fans that get pissy and rude for some bullshit reason drive me bugfuck.

Also? WhyTF isn't SMG in any of the extra stuff on the DVD's? And was she NOT at the Buffy wrap party? I must admit, that kind of bugs me. But not enough that I'm gonna go onto a board where she reads and say, "EFF HER."

And that's Strega's favorite season, hee!

Season 3 has a great beginning and a great end, but an unfortunate middle. (Likewise, Season 2 has a great beginning and a great middle, but an unfortunate end. Season 4 is awesome from start to finish.) I don't know much about Tim's contribution to that middle, but I get the impression he was responsible for most of the great stuff in the beginning and end (given the episodes he had a direct hand in), so I'm cool with that.

And, Aims, yeah. Shit happens. It's kind of surprising when you look at writers' IMDb bios and you realize some of the crap they were responsible for at some point.

the most horrible thing was what was done to Cordelia's characterization in the name of making her more "heroic"/a suitable love interest for Angel

a million times this.

And was she NOT at the Buffy wrap party? I must admit, that kind of bugs me.

no, she wasn't. charming, huh?

no, she wasn't. charming, huh?

That's just shitty. Seriously.

a million times this.

sits next to Tiggy

Season 3 has a great beginning and a great end, but an unfortunate middle.

Huh. I thought some of the middle patch was the best of S3, specifically the run from "Loyalty" -- burger loa! -- to "Forgiving," but then, the whole Wes-going-dark arc was the only reason I didn't give up the show in disgust at that point, so I may be biased. The last few episodes of S3 had Gunn selling his soul for a freakin' truck, glowy!Cordy, and of course, the Crapture (tm Matt, I think), which I don't consider a high point of the show.